Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a Clemson Extension agent, horticulture agent, and I get to come over with my friend and co-host, Terasa Lott.

And, Terasa, it's just so much fun to learn new things all the time.

Isn't it?

Terasa> It really is.

I hope that I am a lifelong learner and try to learn at least one new thing every day, and being here on Making It Grow affords me that opportunity.

Amanda> And you're the Midlands director?

Terasa> District Extension Director.

Amanda> Okay.

It's a long title.

Terasa> It is, it is.

It just means I have the pleasure of working with about 39 staff members in our nine extension offices in the middle of the state, and helping them to serve our citizens.

Amanda> Okay.

Thanks so much.

Vicky Bertagnolli over in Aiken, helping people over in that sandy, sandy soil area.

And, but you're also helping people at HGIC.

Vicky> Yep, I work both.

I work, the Extension office in person and then help with emails at the Home and Garden Information Center.

Amanda> Okay.

So you don't do as many phone calls at the Home and Garden Information Center.

>> No, it's just all emails and I handle.

But I do handle phone calls in my office.

Amanda> Okay.

All right, so if somebody has a question over your way, they can call you.

>> You can call, email, text or send me an email at HGIC.

You just put attention Vicky on there.

>> Okay.

Or you can walk in the door.

Amanda> Yeah, walk in the door.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

And Hannah Mikell, I'm just enjoying having you come and be with us because you're an agronomy agent.

And, farming, agriculture is the largest part of South Carolina's economy.

>> That's right.

Yes, right.

We have our top ten commodities that I get to work with quite a few of them.

Amanda> Do you?

Hannah> Almost all of them.

Yeah.

Amanda> Okay.

Isn't that something?

Is watermelon one of them?

>> No, it's not, but we are seeing some of the moderate size farmers who are either going to have to go all in and more acreage and row crop, or they're going to do some niche marketing.

And because they already have some of the equipment and irrigation, they have started planning some more, watermelon acres.

Amanda> Oh, cool!

>> We just needed a market, so.

Amanda> Yeah.

Well, I tell you, South Carolina watermelons are good.

Hannah> They are delicious.

Amanda> They sure are.

Okay.

And Davis Sanders down here from South Pleasantburg, I finally realized it's not North Pleasantburg.

Nurseries on the banks of the Reedy River.

>> Mm-hm.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

>> Thanks for having me back.

Amanda> Yeah.

Davis> It's always a pleasure.

Amanda> And I think y'all are, it's easy to find.

It is, if, if you're familiar at all with Greenville, the South Pleasantburg Drive is part of what used to be known as the 291 bypass.

It connects I-85 to Highway 25, US 25.

But, we're about a mile off of I-85.

We're just south of Greenville Tech.

Amanda> Okay, well, that makes it easy.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, goodness gracious.

Well, we're going to have some fun things for you to watch.

In between answering your questions, we have, going to Riverbanks Zoo where they had, you should see the greenhouse.

It is a marvel of up to dateness, if that's fair to say, so lots to stay tuned for.

And one thing, Terasa, we can do is always start off with the beautiful things people have shared with us.

Sometimes they're beautiful and sometimes they're whimsical.

Terasa> You are right, we could probably use lots of adjectives to describe because everyone's yard is personalized, right?

So let's take a look at your yards, your gardens, your landscapes, or a beautiful place in South Carolina has many of them.

Today we begin with Sarah Huff, who shared Carousel Mountain Laurel with its white starburst flowers dotted with irregular maroon splotches, and she noted that the photo... She took the photo, but it was grown by Patty Huff.

So congratulations for your successful gardening!

Virginia James shared a cabbage that appears to be swallowed up by the leaves of some potatoes that are also being grown.

From Lynne Hester, we have Rocky Shoals spider lilies grown at Parks Mill in Plum Branch.

From Sharon Enlow, a patch of blue eyed grass, which is a lovely little native species.

And we wrap up with Allyson Hirsch, whose mailbox had been hit by a car.

And what we're seeing, is what has grown back.

So she was very pleased.

It's always disappointing.

I think some of these have sentimental value.

But thanks to everyone for sharing your photos.

We enjoy seeing them.

Remember, this is just a random sampling.

I think there were 80 plus submissions, and we only get to show about five or so on the show.

So visit our Facebook page to see everyone's submissions.

Amanda> And the Rocky Shoals Spider Lily is a fascinating native plant, not widely distributed because it has very specific requirements.

And, so I know that at Riverbanks, we when we were out at Boyd Island, we could see some from there.

And it's a fascinating plant.

Yeah.

Okay.

All righty.

Well, what can we do to help some people?

Terasa> We are going to start with a question from Debbie in Aiken.

Debbie brought some grass into the Aiken office and wanted to know what to spray on the grass to kill the fungus.

Amanda> Just.

Okay.

Vicky> Yeah.

So.

Amanda> A little peculiar.

Vicky> She brought it in a bag, and this was kind of fun.

So what this is, is it's, it's not a fungus.

It's fungus-like.

But it's not actually a fungus.

This is a slime mold.

And slime molds are really neat organisms.

There's, there's a range of them.

Amanda> It's kind of like they've got a brain.

I mean, they're kind of peculiar in the way they move around.

It is.

And when they're found on a plant like this, this is grass, it's not feeding on the plant, and it doesn't cause any disease.

It doesn't affect it with anything.

What it is, is it's just using the plant as a substrate, but it's feeding on decaying organic matter.

It's feeding on bacteria, and it's feeding on other fungi.

So it's not anything that we have to worry about.

Some people don't like the way that it might look in the turf, but there's no reason you need to spray it because it's not causing any harm to the turf.

but if if, maybe if you don't like the way that it looks, you can spray it with the water hose to kind of make it dissipate.

But what's going to happen is, whenever conditions dry up, either the, the organic matter canopy, what's in the canopy of the grass dries up or the relative humidity drops, then this stuff will just go away on its own.

Amanda> Yeah.

They're not long lasting.

Vicky> And there's some really neat ones.

One of my favorite ones, y'all already know what I'm going to talk about.

There's one that's called dog vomit slime.

And it looks exactly like the way that it sounds, but it's one of my favorite ones.

You can see it kind of creeping over your, over your -- Amanda> Because it does move.

Vicky> It does.

I mean, it's not perceivable where you're going to watch it, it's going to move.

But over the, over a few days, you can see it.

Amanda> If you put a little markers in it, you could see it move, and it's a pretty cool organism.

It's a really neat organism.

Well, I'm so glad we got to talk about something fun in the grass that we don't have to worry about.

Oh, they're just worrying way too much about their turfgrass.

Thanks a lot.

Okay, well, Terasa, Terasa> How about next, we help Martha in Clio.

She said it seems the number of deer are increasing in fields in major agricultural areas.

Are farms doing anything to prevent deer from eating their crops?

Because I know a lot of homeowners will reach out and say that their yard has become, you know, just inundated with damage from deer.

So I would imagine farmers have problems too.

Amanda> Well, we are now the most populous state to move to, and we see that we're losing farmland and open spaces pretty dramatically in South Carolina.

And, so the deer were here before we were, and they're trying to stay alive.

So this is going to become even more of a situation.

Hannah> Yes, yes, and if you've ever hit one at night or during the day with your car, they can be quite a nuisance.

Although a good, I guess, protein if you were a hunter.

But, but we are increasing in such numbers that it's creating a huge detriment to our soybeans especially.

They're so succulent and soft that they love them.

And so I did bring some examples today because I happened to be, scouting some soybeans.

And this is where they kind of should be this time of year.

They're, they're out of the cotyledon stage, which is the two seed pods as you plant it.

The first two little leaves.

Right.

And they're so thick and luscious that they start to push all their nutrients up towards these top true leaves.

And when they start to do this, they're very tasty, luscious and, and, you know, sweet, I guess to the deer.

Amanda> And good for you.

I mean, healthy for them.

Hannah> Right.

And so when they do that the deer figure it out and they can smell it.

They sit in the bushes and they watch you.

I promise you, I've been in a field.

I go and go, forgot my shovel just the other week.

And I drove back by and looked in the same field I was in.

There was deer already out there.

Just as I left.

It's like 11:00 in the middle of the day.

So the soybeans, then, as they germinate, they'll pick up, like, this is an old corn stalk, or stover, as they call it in Midwest.

It's latched on to this.

But this is right beside it.

It had fed a little bit on this and damaged it, but just next to it, they're, they're affecting it and there's nothing left to grow back.

So, you're talking about the ceilings.

You can't even tell they're out there anymore.

So you'll come along.

You'll see green, green, green and then 220ft of nothing.

And then the closer you get to the woodland or the wooded area in the back of the fields or surrounding areas, they've just clipped off the tops.

And with the energy that that plant did have, if it no longer has those cotyledon leaves, there's nothing else to really push towards the top and create growth.

And so we're really at a huge disadvantage.

The deer are, there's a study done not long ago.

It's about $30 million worth of loss that we have in South Carolina just from the deer eating soybeans.

And that's, that's just the yield loss there.

I mean, it stretches far and far beyond what people are, their livelihoods, really.

Amanda> Well, and they were here before we were.

Hannah> They are, I think -- Amanda> It's a very complicated situation and.

Hannah> It is.

Amanda> But we've got to, you know, the farmers have to protect their crops.

Hannah> That's right.

Yeah.

Our state specialist has even said at our winter meetings to our farmers is their, you know, landowners, they, they manage their wildlife areas as well.

But for every one buck you kill, he had recommended like 10 to 11 does.

So are we doing that really?

I'm not quite sure.

I would think not overly populated areas, we haven't controlled them as well as what we should have.

Amanda> My friends who hunt specify that you're supposed to shoot does.

I mean, you're not supposed to be going after the big antlers.

If you want to control the population and keep it in bay, then you go after does.

Hannah> Well, and the antlers are grown from the nutrients they eat, right?

So if you've got tens of 12 amount more than 12 times the amount of does that you do deer or buck's out there, then they're not going to have the nutrients they need to eat.

So yeah, that's a balancing act.

Amanda> Thank you.

And the meat is very good.

Very delicious.

Hannah> It is!

Right, right.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah, okay.

Well, Terasa?

Terasa> What have we got next?

It seems that Brad in Conway is feeling a little confused and I don't blame him.

He says plant terminology is so confusing.

What's the difference between a hybrid and a cultivar?

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

Well, you're up there ordering things and looking at catalogs.

You think you can help us?

Davis> I think so.

Really, the, the, the, terminology, is, isn't as confusing as, as it or is, is more confusing than it should be.

A hybrid is a distinct offspring between two members of the same genus, but probably different species.

Say, for instance, a dog and a wolf crossbreeding produces an offspring that's a hybrid.

Amanda> Okay.

Hybrids can occur in nature.

Amanda> All right.

And they do quite frequently.

A cultivar is sort of a misused name, but a cultivar basically would not exist without man's intervention.

Usually it's, it's a sport of a plant that shows a different characteristic from the parent plant, so.

Amanda> Something people would like to, that they find attractive.

>> So a plantsman, a nurseryman, even a, even a homeowner or a hobby gardener sees something different on a plant that's desirable, and they propagate it and they continue to propagate it.

And all of a sudden you have an entirely new plant that has the same genetic make up of the parent plant, but an entirely different appearance.

Sometimes when, when we have those types of selections from native plants, they're termed "nativars" or cultivars of native plants.

But this gets into the area where we are trying to establish a new terminology.

Instead of using cultivar, nativar, we're calling it selections because that's exactly what we've done.

We have found a trait that we like to propagate, and we select that and increase the population of it.

A perfect example are the, our native alum root or heuchera americana.

>> Yes, yes.

It's, it's a very common native plant, beautiful little plant.

But, somewhere along the line, somebody saw one that had this interesting, dark, purple venation on the leaves.

And so they, they took a division of it and they started propagating it and multiplying it.

And all of a sudden we now have heuchera green spice.

The genetic makeup is basically the same as the native alum root, but it's got these beautiful leaves that you don't see only on the parent species.

Another one is the Polemonium reptans or Jacob's Ladder.

This one, this one is called Stairway to Heaven because it's got this, this, beautiful, white variegation on the leaves.

The, the species is pure green.

The flowers are a little bit darker.

And one of the common names for this is Jacob's ladder.

>> Yes.

And, they, they selected the name Stairway to Heaven to indicate that maybe that's how Jacob sinned.

But the, the, the only, the only true difference genetically is the fact that these are growing with the variegated leaves.

And if you do a DNA extraction, you'll find they're pretty much identical.

Amanda> Terasa, we're always looking at things that are larval food sources.

I'm thinking of something that comes to mind, the redbuds.

and now there are all these ones that don't have Terasa> Don't have green leaves.

Amanda> Don't have the typical leaf.

And, I'm just wondering if it's a larval food source, if that's always going to be a sustainable system, give us sustenance or be preferable, or even do what they need for it to do.

Terasa> Right.

So it's an area of emerging research.

>> It is?

And what I understand thus far is that especially if we're thinking about the host plant for a caterpillar, right?

Caterpillars feed on leaves.

If we change that pigment, so we turn a green leaf purple, that that may have a significant impact on whether or not that caterpillar can now feed because they are not used to having that other pigment in the leaf.

And so, there's other things to take into consideration.

The flower form and whether, or if we change it and the nectar is not accessible anymore.

So.

Amanda> Or if it's doubled or something?

Or I don't know.

Anyway, different things.

>> Exactly, exactly.

So, like I said, it's an area of emerging research, but in terms of wildlife value, it would be that that native species or naturally occurring sports or things on which those insects have co-evolved.

Amanda> So, I guess, we, so sometimes substrate species for certain people who want to do certain, want to be certain that the insects can use it to its complete advantage might be the best.

Davis> It's, it's really more of a concern for the people that are planting, not, not for the aesthetic value of the plant, but for the wildlife value.

A perfect example is the purple cone flower.

The echinacea purpurea is the, the species has large seed heads and very swept back petals, so that the, the seed head is, is readily available.

A lot of the newer selections, the double flowering ones where, where those, those little seed heads are completely covered by the, by the, the, the structures on the flower are not accessible to the to the butterflies and bees that love the species.

So the more open that flower is, the, the happier the bees are going to be.

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

Well, thank you.

(laughter) But thank you for explaining it so, so well.

I really do appreciate it.

We really enjoy going to Riverbanks Zoo and Garden and, they do a lot in their greenhouse.

And now they've got a pretty wonderful, fabulous, interesting greenhouse.

I'm talking to Eric Shealy at Riverbank Zoo and Garden in the brand new wonderful greenhouses.

>> Thank you, thank you.

Yes.

Amanda> And you know, when you think about Riverbanks Zoo and Garden, people think about the zoo aspect and the animals.

But of course, the garden side is exquisite in its own right.

And then throughout the entirety of it, it's plants, plants, plants, plants.

Eric> We're heavily planted.

Amanda> Yes, you are.

And so they've got to be protected and you've got to propagate.

And you needed a better greenhouse.

So, this is it.

Eric> Yeah.

This is a, this is a while coming.

The last greenhouses were about 28 years old.

We definitely designed better, this time.

So, we got something that was a lot more structurally sound, a lot more advanced technologically.

And then, we have seen the results, especially this year.

A lot more happier plants.

Amanda> And, I think it, we've even, we're almost hurricane proof, too, I think.

Eric> Yeah, this building is very solid.

They said it was rated to a category 4 hurricane, so.

Yes.

Amanda> So this is where we'll all come to evacuate.

Eric> I mean, it might be scary, but.

Yeah.

I mean.

Yeah.

Amanda> But, so let's talk about some of the wonderful features that this greenhouse has that make it, life, so much easier for you and let you have more plants and everything.

Eric> So, when we designed these, we sat down with an engineer from our greenhouse company, Stuffy Greenhouses out of Kansas City, and they basically gave us a rep who is local, and he helped us design based upon our wants.

So our needs and wants were all met pretty much.

And he made those a reality by, you know, coupling what we needed to tell to get out of them.

And he just made it a reality.

And which is the best of building relationships.

If anybody's built a house or anything before, if somebody can extrapolate what you need, that's the best thing.

But, no, our, our advancements, we can grow a ton more plants.

There's a ton more automation.

So I can control everything from the phone in my pocket.

I can sit at home and I can change temperatures and I can, I can put shade on houses.

I can regulate the temperature of any, any house.

Cool it up, cool it down, warm it up.

It's, it's kind of fantastic.

I can evacuate all the air out of a house in one go if I need to.

So if you, if you have, like, a pesticide application that you really need to get out of the house really quick, you can evacuate it.

>> Good heavens!

Yeah.

So it's, it's, it's a lot of things that people don't really think about.

But it makes our life a lot easier.

Amanda> Every year you start over with lots of things that are going to be used by the gardeners.

And I thought you probably just picked everything out and grew it.

That's not the way it works.

Eric> It would be a lot easier if I picked everything out and grew it, because it would not, it, well, honestly, it wouldn't be a challenge if I, if I wanted it to be.

But I do like a challenge when I grow.

So, our gardeners, we have about ten gardeners and they all have their different areas.

And we also have group areas.

And our, one of our horticulturists designs for those, and we're constantly trying to push limits with things.

We grow new things every year.

There's not been a year that I've been doing this job that we haven't grown something that I haven't grown before.

So that, as a grower who likes challenges, that's a tremendous part of why I love this job.

But having greenhouses like this definitely make that a little bit, and experimentation a little bit easier.

Amanda> But you also have things that, you know, just work wonderfully.

Eric> Oh, yes.

Absolutely.

Amanda> And, let's talk about some of those because maybe there are some things that some people might want to consider growing in their South Carolina garden where it's hot, hotter than blue blazes, and sometimes it doesn't rain and all that kind of stuff.

Eric> So, a lot of the things that we grow for hot, the hot and humid climate here, I mean, if anybody ever wants to know what grows in hot and humid, they can always get in contact with us, because we know.

When you grow annuals or perennials or whatever in a brick oven, that is our botanical garden, or the zoo next to a river, hot, humid, is, you know, we're famously hot for a reason in Columbia, but, in the greenhouse right now, we have salvias.

They're always a stalwart, heat and humidity tolerant.

The plant, we have lantana, of course, lantana is heat and humidity tolerant.

We also have some cool things like Nicotianas, the flowering tobacco.

Then people think, oh, tobacco, you're going to grow like in the fields.

And yes, it's related to that, but no, these are very showy.

And they actually last pretty decently for us we found out.

We also have a lot of different vincas.

We love a, we love Mediterranean vinca.

It really loves our hot and humid climate.

Amanda> At the moment, we're standing in the area where you overwinter the tropicals.

>> Oh, yes.

And some of these are really big, and apparently, you've got a forklift.

And so you can take these out and put them in places where they really add a bunch of wow, wow, wow.

Eric> Yeah.

So after the after threat of frost is gone, these will go out.

We usually take a forklift and we place them around the zoo and the garden.

We'll do that before we even open to the public.

So we're here at 6:00am getting these large pots out and having them in place by nine.

So it's, it's, a little bit of a magic factor, but we, I mean, when we put them out, it is instant wow.

Because we can, we can grow them here.

And they look just as good here as they will out there.

This greenhouse holds our tropical collection, of course.

And it has plants that we, we rotate in and out of um exhibits.

We rotate in and out of the public area as well.

Amanda> Okay.

Okay.

And I think one of the wonderful things is these people with whom you work did such crazy creative things.

You've got barn doors instead of swinging doors, which gave you extra room and every which is important to you.

Eric> Yeah.

So the part of the design aspect, of the design process, we had to look at it as we need every available inch of space for plants.

We, I mean, the, being able to move around in the greenhouse is great, but, our old greenhouses, their benches were ten feet shorter.

So I made these ten feet longer.

All of the doors are sliding, except for the doors that don't need to be.

So that swing, you have to account for that swing, and that swing, this is our technical we got.

We got, we said, well, that would be about 25 plants, 25 one gallon plants.

The swing of a door, you know.

So we had to really figure out where we could pull space from.

So, our cooling pads and our cooling systems all got smaller, but the same volume just got smaller footprints.

So we can put more plants in the backs of houses and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Amanda> I think just so much fun to go behind the scenes and realize as we just stroll through the gardens.

>> Yeah, I think we realized that a little while ago, actually, as a, as a zoo, people actually love to come into these greenhouses.

So we do behind the scenes tours a lot over here, especially for special interest groups and stuff like that.

We had, you know, a master gardener group.

We even had the HGIC people down here.

Everybody from Clemson's HGIC, the Home and Garden Information Center, and they, they loved it.

They, they, they got a little field trip while Clemson was on Spring Break, I think they were down here.

Amanda> And, as always, people couldn't get all the things done without volunteers.

I think your volunteers are integral to the success.

Eric> They are.

I, I always like to say that I cannot get my job done without volunteers because they are my production assistants.

They, I call them my production assistants because without them, our annual seasons don't get done, our regular propagation doesn't get done.

Our plant sale definitely would not get done.

and just the general look and feel of and health of the plants would not be as good.

So yes.

Amanda> Eric, it's so much fun to come and find out what makes it all happen.

And you're such an integral part of that.

I really appreciate it.

Eric> Thank you so much.

Thank you for being here.

And I love having excited plant people around me.

(laughter) Amanda> It's our joy.

Eric> Thank you.

What fun to get to visit with Eric Shealy and find out everything that goes on behind the scenes so that Riverbanks Zoo and Garden can be as absolutely beautiful as it is.

Oh, goodness.

Well, hats, hats, hats.

This one, I was, stopped on the side of the road, Terasa, and you know, I stopped to look at something else.

And then when I stopped and started walking around there are little things that you don't notice otherwise, you know, because I'm on back roads and it's just delightful.

I found this little thing called, I think, rabbit's foot clover, just so sweet.

And then you tell everybody what you said this was.

I think that's fun.

Terasa> I think Vicky and I were talking about it.

It looks like a plant that we would call fleabane.

The genus is Erigeron.

That was kind of fun to say.

Amanda> Yeah, and but it looks like a little...

It's a composite.

It looks like a little teeny tiny daisy.

And it's got a lot of blue pigment in it, you know, which you see when you look at it up close.

And then, since, I'm going through farmlands, there was some corn growing outside.

(laughter) Side of the road.

Honestly, I'm so lucky that I have a drive like that instead of just, you know, on the highway.

Anyway.

Well, Whom can we help now?

Terasa> Let's see.

We always have questions.

How about Jim from Windsor?

Jim said, I found this on a wild cherry tree in my yard.

What is it?

And will it kill my tree?

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

Oh mercy.

Heavens.

Vicky> Jim brought this into my office and this is wild cherry.

This is Prunus serotina.

Amanda> That's the one that gets the wonderful caterpillars in it.

>> It does.

And it's just fabulous.

Vicky> And it's always got a leaf spot on it.

The leaves always kind of look like this, but, what Jim's asking about is all of this stuff right here, and it's it's one of those things where it's a, it's a fungus.

So this is black knot fungus.

It can get on the fruit trees and the ornamental trees and the wild cherry.

So, but what this is, is it starts out, the first year, it might just discolor some of the wood, and, it's not really noticeable.

and then after about the, the first year, it'll start to have these little knots that will make the tissue swell, and then as this fungus starts to mature and, and in subsequent years, you'll start finding, examples like this.

Now, what you're going to notice is it's typically found on one side of a branch or typically something small, it's going to be new growth that you're going to find it on, and whenever you like in the early stages, it'll be, you'll notice it's just on one side.

But as it gets older, it's going to end up girdling this branch, and then it'll kill the branch off.

Amanda> And you know, we have, this is the source of cherry wood, which is, of course, a wonderful wood.

And just absolutely beautiful.

But we can't grow our even though we can grow the tree, cherry trees, Prunus serotina, here.

We don't get it to the lumber stage because this impedes that.

I think as you go farther north, the, you know, they don't have as many fungal diseases.

Vicky> Yeah, it's it's one of those things where living in the South, it's hot, it's humid, it's, it's great growing conditions for any kind of pest.

And it's, you know, for diseases.

This is one of the, the places to be is the Southeast.

Amanda> But I love Prunus serotina.

And what's the caterpillar that we see that's in it?

Do you remember?

Vicky> I don't remember right off the top of my head.

But there's, it's one of those things where the host plants, if you can look up the plant, you can find a whole list of things that, that only feed on that plant.

Or if you know the critter, you can find out what plant they're on.

Amanda> It's so fun.

Some things are such generalists and some things are so special.

And just one little thing, yeah, that's cool.

Thank you so much for sharing that with us.

We appreciate it.

All right, Ms. Terasa.

Terasa> What's next?

This question comes in from my area, Beverly in Darlington said I found some old seeds in my grandmother's shed.

How do I know if they will still grow?

Amanda> Ahh!

It might be something you can -- Hannah> Yeah, yeah.

Actually, it happened to my son's kindergarten class.

I'm glad Beverly called in and asked about that.

So they planted.

I don't know if you can zoom in on this lovely house that he Oh, this is what's he colored.

He'll love that he gets to be in part of mom's work.

Amanda> What's his name?

How old is he?

Hannah> He is six.

Amanda> Oh, yeah, a big boy.

Hannah> He's very, very bright.

But they they did a little, for Earth Day -- Amanda> Show us the root ball so they can see it.

Hannah> It is amassed down there.

It looks like he planted about a hundred in a cup.

And so if you're wanting to see, like, how much seed that she has left and how much might be able to germinate, you could take a potted plant or an old potted plant, something that has some topsoil in it and go ahead and seed your, your seeds and, and water and make sure it is in a moist environment, especially if it's off season.

Create the environment that it would need to germinate.

>>Okay.

And in some cases it even has to go through a cold chill.

Amanda> So, so, you go to get a pot that doesn't have a plant in it, you just grab the soil in it.

Hannah> Correct.

Yes.

>> Okay.

Hannah> Some of my pots are, you know, the plant has since withered away.

This is a spring root ball.

But as you can see, like, he, he did dump a lot of seeds in here.

Good job, Wats.

Look at there.

So this looks like a lot of little grains.

I think they call this a cat, a cat seed, or what were we talking?

Cat grass!

Yeah.

So, so, it's, it's a mixture of different types of grains.

But if I was going to see how much germinated in this, I would have started with how many seeds I put in.

Maybe it was 100 and I had, there looks like really, really good germination.

So maybe around 80, 90%.

Yeah.

Fun fact is, if you're selling seeds in South Carolina as a commercial seller, I believe they all have to be certified on the germ of the seed that you're selling.

So if you're a homeowner and you have seeds that you're collected from, maybe your aunts and uncles or your grandparents in a in a freezer and you're cleaning and helping them clean out some stuff, you can send those seeds off to Department of Agriculture.

You can send them through the the Clemson Extension offices, and we'll ship them to you or ship them to the lab in Columbia with Department of Ag, and they will tell you what your seeding rate is.

They'll also do a purity too.

So if it is like a bin run seed, let's say, they went and took the header and harvested some wheat and they want to see what their wheat germ is for the next year's planting, they'll tell you if there's ryegrass in there, any kind of other impurities.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

So if you wanted to sell it, you could.

Amanda> That's pretty cool.

>> Yeah.

Well, so, the South Carolina Department of Agriculture does lots of great things for us.

They do a lot more than just the things people think they do.

Hannah> They for sure do.

Yeah.

Amanda> Well, that was just wonderful.

And tell Wats we appreciate it, too.

Hannah> I will.

He won't like that I tore it up.

Amanda> No, I don't think he'll like that.

Hannah> We'll have to trim it.

Amanda> Put it back in.

(laughs) Amanda> Okay.

There we go.

All right, Terasa.

Terasa> Well, before we go to another question, you were asking about the wild cherry.

And so since I have the technology at my fingertips, our good friend Doug Tallamy writes about a wildlife value.

Right?

And so black cherry serves as the host for more than 450 different species.

So they're not all, not necessarily in South Carolina, but one of them is our eastern tiger swallowtail, which is our state butterfly.

Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Terasa> But that that's pretty amazing, right?

And we talk about how different.

But some butterflies are generalists and feed on multiple species, and others are very specific.

Like we talk about the monarch only uses milkweed species, but that is incredible.

And of course, the fruits are used by birds as well.

So.

And of course, pollen and nectar as well.

Amanda> And I wonder if it's even available in the trade.

Probably not.

Davis> I would imagine a, a mail order native plant nursery would be a good source for it.

(crosstalk) Terasa> Some consider it kind of a weedy tree, so.

Oh, in the in the home landscape, people might not appreciate its growth habit.

Amanda> But it's not like cherry laurel.

It doesn't, so it doesn't come up everywhere.

And, you know, cherry laurel's a marvel, even though it's a native, I mean, good gracious.

But, the Prunus seratina does not, and it has a real pretty bark, if I remember.

Vicky> It's really interesting.

It, it's smooth, but it's not, because it'll have, like -- Amanda> Lenticels or something.

Vicky> Yeah, it looks like lenticels on it, but they're, they're long and skinny, instead of being little focus dots Vicky> Yeah.

I think it's quite beautiful.

They're kind of long and skinny.

Amanda> Well, thanks, Terasa, for looking that up and telling us about it.

400!

Terasa> Yeah.

>> Okay.

Okay, we do have a question.

That one comes from Jeremy in Saluda.

Somewhat related.

He said, I planted what I thought was a native plant, but it's taken over the entire flower bed.

Is that normal?

Amanda> Ooh.

Goodness.

Well, Davis, y'all have a lot of native plants that y'all deal with.

Davis> We do.

And, and one of the issues is that so many Southeastern natives won't grow here anymore because of the environmental changes.

We don't have as many trees as we used to.

We've already addressed that.

But, also, using a native plant, you first of all have to look at what area it's native to.

and in order for that plant to succeed in your area, you have to kind of duplicate those situations.

A good example is the prairie cone flower.

This is one of the most beautiful cone flowers.

It's free flowering flowers for a long time.

Huge, yellow, yellow flowers with the classic brown seed.

Amanda> Yes?

Davis> This is not a true, true cone flower.

It's, this is a Ratibida is the Latin name for this one, but, but in, in, in a prairie setting, the environment is going to limit its spread.

You're going to have, periods of drought, you're going to have periods of heavy rain, you're going to have different soil types.

But moving this into a stable environment, like a home landscape where you've got the same water requirements, the same moisture availability.

Amanda> You've got irrigation and can turn the sprinklers on.

Davis> Right.

The same soil type.

This plant will find a good spot to grow in, and it will grow until it reaches a spot where it's not happy.

And, in some cases, this, this particular one -- Amanda> It's aggressive.

Davis> It can be aggressive.

It's an excellent filler if you've got a, like a large hillside or something like that where you're wanting to stabilize the soil.

It's got a fairly good shade tolerance.

So if you've got an area maybe on a woodland edge where you just want a big mass of flowers, this might be one to choose, but, it's, it's, it's not not one to put in a small space.

I had one escape from one of my plantings, and, in one year's time, it covered about a 300 square foot bed.

but... Amanda> I don't think I'd want to have that any anywhere near.

I mean, I just don't think it should be here.

Davis> But if it's, here again, if it's, if you've got that kind of a specialized area, it's, it's kind of like, kind of like love grass the highway department uses on roadsides.

It has, it does have some use.

Amanda> Because it's, you know, we've, the United States is huge, you know, and so things that are native in one place, the conditions are so very different that when you take it somewhere else, it may not behave itself, so, I think, maybe we should be, you know, what would be a good way to find natives that are native to, that wouldn't get out of hand here, I wonder?

Davis> Well, it's, it's really kind of difficult because you have to find places that, that have the same type soil structure that we would have and that kind of thing.

And, and a lot of, a lot of gardening, especially dealing with either natives or exotics is sort of trial and error.

I've got this plant.

I'm going to see if it will grow here.

It won't grow here.

Let me try it over here.

Oh, it's too happy there.

Amanda> Vicky, native plants and things, y'all suggested pollinator gardens at HGIC.

Vicky> We do.

Amanda> Do y'all take into account things like this?

Vicky> We do.

So we'll look at, you know, is this, is this on any kind of watch list?

Amanda> Would something like this be on a watch list?

Vicky> It could be.

>> Oh, okay.

There's a number of lists to look at.

There's a number of websites that we use to recommend plants.

>> Okay.

We've mentioned many times the Carolina Yards plant database.

Terasa> Yes.

I'm glad you said that, because we are actually working with the South Carolina Native Plants Society.

And, we're going to launch, actually, they have already launched a new plant.

They're calling it a plant directory.

And so, we have intentions to kind of move away from our Carolina Yards plant database and direct people to the South Carolina Native Plant Society plant directory.

Amanda> Well, I think that's wonderful.

Vicky> And then there's another one.

There's the NC State Extension Gardener Plant Tool Box.

It's very similar to the Carolina Yards Plant Database.

And you -- Amanda> North Carolina's going to have lots of things in common with us.

Vicky> Right.

Both of those databases or directories, they have, like, a plant profile.

And if it happens to be something that's, that's emerging as a noxious plant, it'll get mentioned on there.

And then we've also got the Department of Plant Industry has plant lists to keep up with too.

Amanda> Okay.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much, and you just take that right back home.

Davis> Okay.

(laughter) You got it.

Amanda> Vicky, what you got over there?

Vicky> So I was out looking in my landscape for fun things to bring on the show, and I was looking for periodical cicadas because I could hear them, but I couldn't find anything.

But I just happened to find something else.

I've got, a bunch of scrubby oaks in my landscape, but one of the fun things I found was a bagworm.

And these are really neat Lepidopterans.

And so Lepidoptera are moths and butterflies.

This one happens to be a moth.

And bagworms are really, really neat critters.

It's, so the females will spend their entire lives in this bag and, um... Amanda> They're just a giant ovary.

Uterus.

(laughs) Vicky> Just a sac that she totes around and the males are going to find her.

They'll, they'll mate inside that bag.

She lays the eggs inside the bag, and then the smaller caterpillars will emerge.

And what they'll do is these caterpillars and, they'll gather the plant material, and they'll use that to put on the case.

And this one happens to be very, very small.

We've seen them.

So one of the restaurants in North Augusta had a significant infestation.

It defoliated most of the shrubbery in their, in their landscaping, but they were hanging on, like, the order boards and it looked like little Christmas ornaments.

And, we see them a lot.

Amanda> Mabre the Grinch's Christmas ornament.

Vicky> Evergreen tree.

It's like an entomologist Christmas ornament, I mean, come on.

(laughter) But we see them.

They feed on a ton of different plants.

I'm talking like 50 different families of plants, and we often see them on our evergreens, like, you know, thujas and, and our cedars and our junipers.

But, I mean, this one's on oak, and so... Amanda> They can be kind of disfiguring.

Vicky> They can.

They're defoliators, and it's, it's one of those things that if you're going to manage caterpillars like this, you have to do it when they're in the very early stages and they're young and actively feeding.

And you can use bacterium like Bacillus thuringiensis.

Amanda> Sure, if they're young.

Vicky> If they're young.

>> Yeah.

And for caterpillars like this you have to use a certain Bt.

It has to be keristake, that you would use on this.

Amanda> Oh, well, thank you for going out there and, and having such good eyesight.

Good gracious, almighty.

(laughter) Terasa?

Terasa> Let's see what other questions we have.

How about Jason in Eastover said, could you explain how cover crops are beneficial in large scale farming and in the home garden?

Hannah> Yeah, I can do that one for you.

Amanda> Okay, please do.

Hannah> I actually have some.

They're starting to kind of get out of hand this time of year if they haven't already been sprayed and planted into.

This is our hairy vetch.

It's a purple flower.

It's a big climber.

It has these little tendrils that will crawl up, these really tall... Watch out!

Ugh.

(laughter) So that really tall one, I don't know if you can see it there.

That is going to be our, our cereal rye.

It gets really tall.

It can get upwards of five, six foot tall, and it's taller than I am when I'm out there.

The seeding rate on it, especially if it's in a several mix like 4 or 5 way mix in the, in the fields, is, is going to be relatively low if you're instead of doing it just a solid cereal rye field.

It has a lot of advantages because of the biomass.

It does aid in weed suppression.

So, which is excellent.

Right?

If they're seeding cotton into it, they mow it down.

They can spray it and kill it, green, all of this, they can, or, they can, they can plant into it green.

And they would have like a roller crimper on the front of their planter.

And it looks like a giant drum that has, like, little spikes on it almost.

But it's a long, like, rigid thing and it crimps the stems.

And so when the stems (crunching) You hear it break?

Yeah, it stops it from growing.

Amanda> And then they just make a tiny area in which to insert the new seeds?

Hannah> That's correct.

Amanda> And there's all this fascinating research being done on always having living roots in the soil.

Hannah> That's correct, and a mixture of roots.

So it's not just a mono crop type of situation.

We don't just have grasses like these oats here.

we don't just have rye.

We will have legume in there.

We'll also have...

This one's already cut out pretty seriously.

But this is our crimson clover.

It's already pretty dead.

But as you can see, it's seeded out, and it got relatively tall for what we know of clover.

But it's competing with everything else.

So the biomass is really increasing.

Amanda> Wow!

Hannah> In some cases, you can actually graze it for cattle.

As long as they don't graze it all the way down, they're leaving some biomass.

You still retain that weed suppression if you're going to plant into it.

And what you refer to is planning into that, you have a cut in culture, it can be wavy or straight or what have you, and they'll cut into the soil, and then they'll have some row cleaners that kind of sweep back the bag mass.

Right?

And then they'll drop the seeds in and they have their press tools that close it back up for you.

So so you're really getting some good seed to soil contact in a lot of cases, you've got the biomass under the ground that's creating little tubes for all the roots, and to allow air and water to percolate down through the soil.

And as this decomposes, it adds back -- Amanda> Organic matter.

>> That's right.

Yeah.

So this is really kind of a trend and perhaps a new way of farming, always having living roots in the soil, because you keep the underground networks of all the psyllium and amoebas and all those little animals Hannah> They're keeping everybody happy, that's right.

Amanda> And they interact with the plant and can actually bring water and nutrients to the plant.

Hannah> That's correct.

Yeah.

And a lot of cases in some soil types and whatever we're planting in mass quantities, right, they'll have a place for cover crops and in other areas where you're doing more.

So peanuts, you won't have as much area needed for cover crops because you do a disc up the land so much when you're harvesting those crops, but there is a huge fit for it.

We're seeing more of a resurgence now because there's government programs that assist with the cost share of it, but it was a practice that was done years and years ago as well.

It's just we're seeing a new trend come up.

Amanda> This is wonderful.

And especially as we're trying to find, synthetic fertilizers are getting more expensive.

We're finding that this type of farming can actually use nutrients that are already in the soil.

It's like a soil bank.

Hannah> I think one of the words we've captured with doing this is like a regenerative agriculture type situation.

And I'm not saying this is end all, be all for all row crop situations.

It has its fit, especially with different soil types.

But for people who are have some tracts of land that they're wanting to like, make sure that the tilt is there and maybe try to increase some organic matter for their grandchildren.

This is a way to do it.

>> Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Amanda> I really appreciate it.

Terasa?

Terasa> Let's see if we can help Laura in Winnsboro, who is collecting rainwater.

She says I'm using a bucket and I notice there are things wiggling in there.

What could they be?

(laughter) Exactly.

Vicky> I believe it is the state bird of South Carolina.

Some of them can carry you away.

They really can.

Amanda> Mosquitoes.

Vicky> They are mosquitoes.

And what she's finding in that bucket of water are mosquito larvae and, this is one of those things where these are flies.

And there's different species, and they lay in different places.

>> All right.

So some of them lay in stagnant water.

Some of them are have the ability to lay in, lay eggs, maybe next to a body of water and then it'll flood, and then the larvae will be able to go into that water.

So there's, there's lots of different species, and -- Amanda> And they don't need a whole lot of water sometimes.

Vicky> They, the research tells us that like, soda can's worth lid top will be able to sustain a mosquito fly cycle.

And, one of the ways that we combat it is implementing IPM, which is Integrated Pest Management.

We want to use cultural practices such as, reducing the amount of standing water, whether it be in a bucket that's collecting water, rain barrel, a tarp, the dog water bowl, anything like that, could be potted plants.

We have a lot of folks that have potted plants and they, you know, we like to love them.

And so we water them and that water stands and this can become larval habitat.

So one of the key issues, one of the key ways to get, to help manage your mosquito population is to remove larval, larval habitats.

>> Yes.

And another way that, that we do, you know, I mentioned a beauty product earlier, is that, there's a race that you would use for mosquitoes.

There's Bacillus thuringiensis.

And that manages fly larvae.

Amanda> And you can get a little duct.

It's like a little donut.

And, I've used it in some places that are hard for me to control.

And I don't think it will even hurt your pets.

Vicky> It's not.

It's, it's safe.

Amanda> It's completely safe?

>> It's only for fly larvae.

It won't even kill like, Lepidopteran larvae.

So, it's very, very specialized.

Amanda> It's so specific.

Yeah.

>> Yes.

And they last a good while.

>> They are.

They do.

They're just wonderful.

Yeah.

Terasa> And we'd encourage anyone using a rain barrel to screen it.

Try to excludes mosquitoes.

But you could use a dunk in there and it would still be safe to use the water on your plants.

Vicky> Ideally, you would screen it.

Hannah> Yes.

Amanda> You know, you can't always do what's ideal.

(laughter) Davis, let's talk about something that might be fun for us to plant.

It might be ideal.

Davis> Okay, well, we've got a couple of things here.

We're getting back to the species versus the cultivar, nativar nomenclature.

This is our native blazing star or Liatris spicata.

>> Yes?

It's, it's an interesting perennial because, well, first of all, of course, it is a pollinator attractor.

Butterflies, hummingbirds will flock to it.

But the interesting thing about this one is most, most flowers, when they send up a scape of flowers, flowers always open from the bottom up to the top.

The blazing star is exactly the opposite.

It will send up its flower spike, and the flowers will open from the top and then work their way down.

I'm going to turn it around so you can see the picture of the flowers here.

And, the, the, it gives the impression of a shooting star because it's got this bright color at the top of it.

And then, and then as it fades, the lower flowers open up.

Amanda> That sounds fun.

And what about this fellow?

Davis> This is a red nodding onion.

This is a, it's a native onion.

It's got beautiful red flowers here.

Again, hummingbirds will crawl on their bellies from Mexico to get to the nectar, but, it's also a, it can be aggressive.

This is a good one for reclaiming rocky slopes.

I think where you've got a lot of rock, a lot of scree where, you know, a rock is starting to shatter, it's good for reclaiming that, because the roots will help further break down the, the minerals in the rock, and -- Amanda> But don't put it in the flower bed.

Davis> Don't put it in your flower bed unless you've got a big, rocky flower bed.

Amanda> Okay.

And what have we got out front?

Davis> Out front, we've got a couple of, of nativar, cultivar selections, pick your word, of our native elderberry.

The one on the right, the bright green one is one called lemony lace.

It does not flower very heavily.

It's grown mostly for the foliage, but it does develop flowers.

And then the one on the left is, is one called dark tower.

That one is a little more closely related to the species.

So it's going to produce the flowers, beautiful plant.

It can produce fruit as long as there are other native elderberries close by.

Amanda> Now, that's one more for the Upstate than the Lowcountry.

Davis> Yes, it can take a little bit of shade.

And it loves moist soil.

Amanda> Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you all for being with us.

We really appreciate it.

And we hope that you'll be with us next week right here on Making It Grow.

Night night.

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