- Ah, the American Dream, how we've heard of her for generations, well, I should say versions of her because this is the version that I grew up with.

Well, for starters, I'd be a homeowner.

I'm thinking a spacious three bedroom, two bathroom in a pretty nice neighborhood with killer curb appeal.

And the n I'd have that weird, not a give it average of 2.3 kids, and I'd probably send them to a very overpriced, prestigious school, even that 0.31, because I love my kids equally.

And for me, I'd be a doctor or a lawyer or some other career that my parents would be able to gush about to their compadres.

Oh, mijo?

He's doing really well for himself.

We're very proud of him.

Now, clearly I emphasized the dream part of that American dream scenario, because that's not my life.

I'm a long time renter.

I'm a dog parent.

And even though I'm not saving lives like a doctor would, I'd like to think I'm changing lives with my podcasts, and I'm okay with that.

I'm pretty happy with how things are going, but that doesn't negate the fact that I was conditioned to want a lot for myself by my parents, by society, and by culture at large.

Because to be American means to have high expectations for yourself and for this country in pursuing your personal and professional successes.

I should be able to do this.

I should be able to afford that regardless of my race, gender, religion.

In essence, life should be easy in this country.

But that hasn't always been a reality for a lot of folks, especially in the face of institutional racism and poverty.

And with unemployment still high, bills mounting, and individual rights seemingly in limbo.

Does any of that sound like the Promise of America?

I'm Xorje Olivares and I'm asking, what do you really want from America?

And is it able to give it to you?

This is Hyphenación, where conversation and cultura meet.

Now, I just gave an idea about what my dream house would seem like if I was able to pursue this American dream, and I'm curious about what my guests would like to live in.

And I'm starting off with my first guest, Paola Ramos.

She is a journalist and an author, mostly of Latina experiences, the most recent being called Defectors, which talks about the rise of the far right Latino community.

Paola, thank you so much for joining me today.

And I'm curious, where are we?

Where are we having a Bad Bunny listening party?

What, what would your house look like?

- So I envision it in, in the West Village of New York City, I envision a brownstone.

I envision like wood floors, high ceilings, like open windows.

I would be okay in that setting with two bedrooms.

- Okay.

- And maybe I can live close to a park, forget that I'm in the city, but then when I want to, I'm in the city.

Like that's, that's the dream for sure.

Dang, I'm talking to you.

I might steal this.

A small apartment in Brooklyn, New York.

No complaints, but one, one day - In the West Village.

Ugh, I love that.

Well, thank you so much for joining us.

We're also joined by Brian de Los Santos in Los Angeles, A proud Angelino.

Brian, is your dream house in Los Angeles?

Is it out there?

- Hell, yeah.

- Okay.

- A hundred percent.

And I would say Malibu, but you know what happened there with the fires earlier this year.

So I gotta rethink my dream house.

You know, I do have a, a second part to that question.

It would be definitely my first instinct is the beach, the waves, some above that California marijuana.

Vibes all around.

I love the beach.

I'm a Leo.

I get, I love warm days.

I, but the second part to my, to that answer is I bought the whole like, grassy area home with like, I always wanted a home with like a two story.

I have a condo that has two stories.

It's out in the desert.

Unfortunately, I don't live there.

Like all, I don't live there right now because I'm in LA.

But it's, yeah, I, I, I would say I was able to get a little bit of the American dream, but it's not, I'm not there right now.

- There's something about the front lawn, right?

Like the white picket fence, the idea that the dogs running in the lawn with the kids in the sprinkler system.

Like it's just permeated all of our ideas of what we should be pursuing.

But thank you both for your answers and thank you both for joining me for this conversation, because I think there's something to say about the American dream and it somehow being synonymous with this, this notion of upward mobility.

And that also kind of resonates with immigration stories, migration stories, like why most folks came to this country to begin with.

And so I wanna focus there first, and I wanna start with you, Paola, if you don't mind maybe sharing your family's migration story and how this, this notion of America even first came to be for you all.

- When it comes to my parents, for them it was really around grasping here, a very basic principle and freedom and right, that didn't exist where they came from, which is back then the, the basic principle of, of freedom of press and freedom of speech.

So my mom is a, a Cuban exile comes from a family of, of Cuban immigrants.

My grandfather was a journalist in Cuba.

First started with the revolution, started with Castro.

And sort of two years into, in true Castro's sort of rise in power, my grandfather ends up being imprisoned be ticles against El Castorismo.

My father leaves Mexico at a time when televisa, of course, you know, massive Mexican, you know, media empire at that point in his career.

This is like mid eighties.

And they kind of start restricting his, his radio pieces and his radio stories.

And so he dece he decides to leave.

And so both of my parents sort of come to a United States looking for that now, looking to sort of freely express themselves and looking for, for freedom of press.

And so that's sort of the, the entry point into that American dream for them.

- Brian was how was your story either similar to similar, how, how, how did your family approach the migration to this country?

- They were leaving Mexico in a, in a, in an era where it was everyone was financially challenged and there was no way out.

And they were seeing opportunities happen here in the late eighties.

And that's what inspired them to come here.

And so I was born in 1990.

I came here when I was two years old and in 1992.

And I was, you know, that they always told me, you know, work hard, you're gonna get something bigger in return, you're gonna be successful at things.

And I think that impacted me so much when I was a little kid, that that's what I thought was gonna happen and I hoped that would happen.

And that's kinda my definition of them American dream, trying to be like working hard to get there and trying to maintain that.

- Yeah, for me, my, my paternal grandfather was an undocumented immigrant from Mexico, but for the most part, everybody was born in that region of the Texas borderlands where I'm from.

And so very like tried and true American.

My parents were first, second generation, and I think because they had already grown up in a period of time, this was during the JFK era, during the seventies civil rights movement, they had already seen what could be possible.

And I think that also helped contribute to my own understanding of what could be possible.

But for you, Paola, how would your family even talk about migration and talk about like the distinction between this is what it was like in our countries of origin.

Ooh, this is what it's like now in America.

- I mean, look, my dad, who then ended up becoming a news anchor, he would always tell me the biggest, the biggest privilege and power you will ever have is, is, is your pen now this ability to write stories to hold people in power accountable and the ability to ask questions, you know?

And I think that I sort of grew up with that understanding that were I ever, as sort of the daughter of immigrants that came from these countries, were I ever to walk into those spaces of power?

Like that was my duty, you know, my duty, my duty was that.

And so I think that's, you know, that that's, that is the sort of environment and the, and the conversations that I, that I grew up in, you know, we're, we're now of course existing in a very different reality as journalists.

And so this is something that I wake up with thinking about every single day and know slowly these rights that I grew up with, they're slowly eroding in front of us every single day.

And so I'm sure we'll talk this, no, like how somehow somewhere these rights and this sort of dream, I start to question like, was it all a myth or not?

No.

How, how real, how real were these rights?

And, and, and how fast can they change?

- Brian, have you had conversations with your parents, especially because they wanted, they had all these expectations.

I feel like all parents have these expectations to like, do well in school, be the valedictorian, go to a nice college, make, you know, have that high paying job.

But did they recognize that it could be a myth or that there was like an asterisk next to the American dream that they had to consider and then also kind of have you consider - Yeah, I think another layer just for my personal story is that my parents are Christian pastors.

And so they feel their success is tied with the religion, whether that is establishing a church of their own or that is serving in some way.

So it, it really isn't just about financial success or, or the, or their home.

FYI, my parents were undocumented when they came into this country.

They ended up buying a house.

The market crash happened in 2008, 2007, 2008.

And they were impacted.

And I think that's when they realized, oh, this is hard.

You know, this is, you can be an immigrant, you can be a good immigrant, you can do everything by the book, and it'll still, you still be, you will still fail.

Honestly.

And the reason why I was like, yes, like the myth is because I feel like so many of our immigrant communities have been impacted by the American dream, like the, the title of the American Dream, you know?

And I do believe millennials, no shade to anyone else and no shade to any other generation, alright, that, but I think millennials are redefining what that American dream is.

Like.

I am talking to my friends about like, they're not getting pregnant, you know, they're like, some couples are like, I don't care about buying a house anymore.

Like, I wanna be stable and I wanna go on vacations with my family.

Like I do.

I care about a home.

I don't know.

So we'll see.

- I, I like this idea of the shifting tides of the American dream.

You, I mean, you addressed it.

I talked about it in the intro.

I don't have any of the things that I thought would be part of the American dream that I grew up with.

And Paula, have you had conversations either with your friends, other family members about how what you're pursuing just doesn't seem to be identical to what they had in mind for you?

- Well, I mean, I, I'm thinking of what I was thinking when I was five, you know?

And I think, I think that's the thing.

This this American dream sort of like corrupts your mind, you know?

And it, and it pushes you to, to believe that you're supposed to meet certain, to certain measures.

Like I thought that by the time I was 37, which is what I am, I thought that I would be married to a man.

I'm a lesbian.

I thought that I would be, you know, yes.

Like living in this house professionally, I think, you know, I think, I think I'm doing okay, but I thought that I would be like do in, in just the, the top of the top.

And more than anything I thought that I could do it all.

You know, I thought that I would be at this stage of my life capable of sort of achieving any type of, of possibilities.

And I think for many of us, millennials we're understanding that it is, it is extremely hard to achieve that in this country, you know, in this country that sells you, that this is a country of possibilities that sells you the message that you can do it all.

Which sure, we're all trying as as hard as we can, but I think what we're, what we're coming to terms with is that at what cost?

You know?

And that's the question.

Like, I believe that I can achieve all these things, but I think every time I feel like I'm kind of like selling my soul to the system, you know?

And I look around me and I'm speaking from a point of immense privilege.

And, but when I'm out there doing, you know, interviews and of course more than anything like talking to like mixed status families and immigrants, more often than not, I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm kind of sensing this, this big shift right now where this American dream and the idea of it is dimming because sure, we are sort of checking the measures, the economic measures.

No, we're, we're, we're having better opportunities that are parents upward mobility is a real thing.

But then the question of like, are we still truly respected, right?

Like, are our rights truly being respected?

Like, is dignity now the dignity that this country promises in that dream?

Like, does that fully exist?

- So is it only 'cause I feel like we use this language already.

Is it a myth, the American dream, or is it just evolving to a place that we can't quite define it yet?

- I low key think it's a myth, and I'll let people process that on their, on their by their own.

And as Paola was talking about her own privilege, I also need to check myself because I have DACA, which is a work permit, and sometimes like Paola, when I'm interviewing mixed status families, I'm like, I, I, I feel the privilege that I hold in this space, whether it's in media or whether it is just having financial stability.

And so for me it is, it's, it's a myth in other theories, in other ways that we see out there.

- Yeah, I mean I think that's like the, the, like the, the key question that we're wrestling with as a nation and in American politics right now is like, you know, are, are are we truly, or are we all headed towards this like multiracial, pluralistic, diverse democracy?

Or at our core, is it always the case that we keep going back to the roots of this country, right?

Which is a country that was founded upon the principles of white supremacy.

And it is a country that every turn, every time it can, it has oppressed and oppressed and oppressed every attempt to sort of diverge, you know, from, from those origins, you know, from, and so I think, I think that's kind of what we're wrestling with as a country.

And I think, not to bring it back to politics, but I think that's why perhaps like the 2024 election once again, was such a shock for so many people because it was like, here we are again, know we had an opportunity to elect a black women president, and yet again, we couldn't do it.

Now here we are again, we've had multiple attempts at passing comprehensive immigration reform, and yet we don't do it Now here we are again separating families.

And so I think it's almost like at some point we have to be real with what we're dealing with and if it is true in fact that are we or not a country of immigrants, like are we or not, you know, like all of these people have for so many years, like shaped the way that we think of this country, right?

Which is yes, it's a country full of dreams and the American dream, and perhaps perhaps we're not.

- Do we feel, just because you just mentioned this idea of like politics is cyclical, some of these stories we've been hearing about for generations for, you know, multiple administrations, like, because the timeline seems like it's repeating itself.

Do we think that's why the American dream continues on?

- I think for me, also, my personal story is as an undocumented immigrant who has a work permit that could go away any second, I'm always on survival mode, like whether I have a house or not, whether I own a car or not, like I don't know what's gonna happen with my future.

And the pathway to a green card to citizenship is not not there for me.

I have to go through, through different loopholes to try to get one.

And even though I have an immigration lawyer and we're trying to do what we can for my, for my case, it's not the easiest one.

- Yeah.

Paola do you think that's, that's it because a lot of people are living in, in the moment, in the day-to-day, there's so much turmoil, so much chaos, both politically, personally, professionally, like folks are going through it.

Is that why we can't imagine a dream that feels like it's five years away, 10 years away, like we ain't got time for that?

- Yeah, look, I think, I think so long as this country continues to present us with, with opportunities, you know opportunities that are better here than those where our families left behind, I think you're a hundred percent right that the dream will continue to to to exist.

However, I do think that we are in the midst of a breaking point where at least I'm finding as I'm talking to people, people that aren't being deported, I'm talking about people that are choosing to, to leave on their own terms.

And I think there's a type of like empowerment and liberation that is coming from families that are kind of looking at themselves and at their journey in this country and that are saying, you know what?

I can't do it anymore.

Unfortunately, I've been meeting a significant amount of people that are making that decision and I've been following them around the country.

I've been following them across the border.

And I'm talking to you after just coming back from Panama, Columbia where I was able to talk to, for example, like a group of 30 Venezuelans, many of whom were in the Interior, many of whom were waiting along the US Mexico border in limbo for a couple of months.

And all of whom decided at some point in the last couple of weeks that they couldn't take it anymore, Y'know.

That it was not worth it for them to live in a country that would criminalize them and deport them to another country simply because of their tattoos.

And so in those conversations, they chose that their dignity at this point was more worth it than living in a country that was giving them the bare minimum.

But then I think I mentioned that it's a breaking point because then what really stuck with me is that when I asked them, is this dream replaceable?

They said yes, no.

And so what happens when you leave the dream and you sort of start looking for it elsewhere?

And I think that's kind of where we're at.

- It's because of the way I'm phrasing it, right, the American dream, right?

Instead of a American dream.

You're right.

An American dream, like somehow I'm putting a singularity to it, which is causing a lot of this commotion.

So Brian, you actually had a chance to do something, which I haven't had a chance to do, which is ask your parents directly about this question on the American dream that at least my parents sold me first, but how did that conversation go?

- Yeah, it was, I was a little scared to ask them because I'm like, am I gonna be like frazzled by their answer?

But my dad kept it really real.

He's like, we know that the policies or even people have treated each other badly in this country, and he knows it hasn't been easy.

He knows that he's had his own personal hurdles and he's at his church, he's also seen other people's hurdles and you know, we've seen people get deported.

We've seen people just lose themselves in this country.

And so what he said is, I feel like this is still a place that everyone can come to, but we know it's hard and it's not everyone can make it here.

And I feel like I'm still happy being here.

Like he's, he says he's not gonna bag on the US, he's not gonna talk bad about the US, but he says he understands how people experience the life here and he's happy where he's at.

He leads a church, he's a pastor, and he's, I'm proud of him as his son that he's doing what he wanted to do.

- Nice.

Paola, Have you had a chance to talk to your parents about this or saving it for Thanksgiving?

- No, I think, look, they have, they have, I think I would say different, different ideas.

So my, I think my dad is someone that, that fundamentally believes that the dream is alive and that it is, it is worth sticking around to see where it ends, you know?

And like I said, so, so long as, and I think that's how he would measure know, so long as his children, which is myself and my brother, have more opportunities than him, which, which we did know.

We went to American colleges and we were able to sort of enter the English speaking media world in a way that he has never been able to know.

So long as those things are real, I think my dad will always say like, it's worth it.

My mother, my mother left the United States two years ago, so my mom now lives in Spain, she's in Madrid.

And I think that's given her a lot of perspective not to be able to, to see the US from afar, particularly the US that we're sort of evolving into and turning into.

And I think she would, she would probably say, if I were to ask her like, would you ever come back and live here on your choice voluntarily?

I would assume that she would say no, because I think that in Spain she has found a certain like peace.

She also is a journalist.

And so I think kind of like leaving the crazy world of American journalism and like the newsrooms, I also think maybe that has something to do with it.

You know, she's, she's not as crazy as kidding to, but I think like there's a level of like calmness and like, and peace.

Maybe there's something to like not living in the sort of like day-to-day competitiveness, not sort of like all of us hustling.

And I think, I think she, I think she's content and, and I think in her eyes she would probably say that, that it's, yeah.

That it's, that it's perhaps attainable elsewhere, not just in the us.

- Yeah.

I love that you alluded to essentially what I feel like what my parents would say, which is I wanna make sure my kids are all right.

Yeah, I wanna make sure that they are provided for.

And so let's talk about the kids, which are us, and get to the question which is at the heart of the episode, which is, what do you want from America?

And what do you think it can give you?

Brian, what is it that you want from, from this country that you came to in 1992?

- Oh, damn.

You put it so deeply.

Almost got me teary eyed over it.

Right now.

I've been, for some reason the past few months, I've been talking, having, I've been talking to students, I've been talking to people on the street when I've been interviewing people.

And the one thing that I come back to is, as an immigrant in this country, I just wanna be treated like a human.

I, I don't wanna be seen as a policy story.

I don't want to be seen as like a tax id number.

I don't want be seen as anything else, but just like, oh, he's a dude who wants to do this and that, and is talented.

And I think that's where, you know, I could see the American dream be about as a human and be treated as such, but sometimes I feel like a number in this country.

So if I had a little magic wand and be like, Brian, what do you want outta this country?

Is people respect each other and are more empathetic, even though that's a controversial topic out there, that empathy is not a thing.

Empathy that shouldn't, empathy, yeah.

So yeah, I wanna be treated more humanly.

- I like that.

What, what would yours be?

- I to agree.

I mean, I think it's, yeah, and just to, to have this, to have this country like love you back entirely.

And I think the expectation was that at this time in history and the year 2024, I think the expectation was that, you know, I'm just talking about myself like as queer people in this like diverse nation, the expectation was that we would be more loved.

And I don't think we're necessarily, we're definitely not there yet.

And so I, I, I think I expect like a very basic level of humanity and love.

And I expect, I expect that in these moments of like transition, I expect this country to like really truly uphold, its like democratic norms and institutions that, that, that allow for these dreams to be alive.

You know what I'm saying?

So at a time when there's so much uncertainty, like my expectation and I'm, I I, I'm not a religious person, but I, I, I, I pray for this, is that those core democratic norms are like unshakeable.

You know?

And that's, that's the expectation I have.

And I think that's what makes this country allegedly in theory, exceptional.

You know, that no matter who's in power, that no matter how different our dreams are, that no matter what, we're at least defended by these like basic principles and, you know, the rule of law.

And so I, I hope, I hope that's real.

- Yeah.

You witnessed part of this transition, especially as it's documented in your book Defectors, because it's talking about the, the rise, or at least now folks are becoming a bit more aware of the conservative wing of the Latino community.

So if you can share a little bit about maybe what they told you about their dreams and desires of what this country should give them.

- The story is that we believed now that as Latinos, our American dream looked a certain way.

I think what we're also understanding is that for those over 45% of Latinos have voted for Trump.

I think they are showing us that the American dream can be corrupted, knowing that there's a point in this journey where like individualism and capitalism and our sort of ambition know to make it in this country our ambition to assimilator ambition, to attain power, our ambition to be at the top that can lead a lot of people, including Latinos and including immigrants and including black and brown people that can lead you to a more corrupted, darker version of the American dream.

Now that can lead a brown person to find something extremely appealing in Trump's version of the American dream, which is a, an American dream that is whiter, that is less threatened by diversity.

And, and I think a is just like sitting with that reality, but then understanding.

And I think that's kind of like the, the more interesting part, like posing the question to all the like Latino insurrectionists that I've interviewed and the Latino proud boys and sort of the border of vigilantes that find something so appealing in Trump's like, version of the American dream.

The question that I now have for them is like, today, in terms of America, like how, how free are you?

Like, did, did you attain that power?

Did he give you anything?

Do you have more now than you did back then?

And I think slowly perhaps the answer is, is no.

Right?

But I think the illusion of that dream no is, is more powerful of course than, than the reality.

And that's, that's what I believe I I would assume is what many of them are coming to terms with.

- Do you think that the American dream can only exist in competition to someone else's?

- I think that's how we've typically defined, defined sorry, the, the dream.

No.

And I think if we define the dream as sort of the a, a dream of possibilities, then, then yes.

And, but I think if we define the dream as this is the dream is based on rights and freedoms and, and justice and movements, then, then it's different.

And I think that's why when you ask this question, people are gonna give you two different versions.

Yes, I attained the dream of possibilities, but no, I didn't attain the dream of like rights and freedoms.

But I think because we're so used to talking about this in like economic terms and in the frame of upward mobility, I think that's where people do get threatened, you know, because then the dream means that you're taking something away from the other person.

You know, that you're climbing up the ladder, but not the other person.

And I think unfortunately, if we've learned something within American politics and within Latino politics is that we too can be greedy.

No?

And that, that we too many times don't want the other immigrant to climb up the ladder the same way that we did.

And that is a harsh reality of where we are, you know, that in this country we're so used to working so hard to attain that dream, and they make it so hard to do it that we then become so corrupted that we don't want the same opportunities for that other person.

And that that is something that is, that does happen.

- Yeah.

Brian, you talked about that what you want this country to give you is empathy.

And I can imagine that part of that is also tied to this transition and this, now that we've seen that there are certain pockets within our community that feel a particular way about immigrants who might feel a particular way about your own family story.

Has that been part of the difficulty of figuring out what you want from this country?

- Yeah, and I think it's because I'm also queer.

You know, I'm, I'm gay, and so we have our own struggles, our community struggles, individual struggles.

But I wanted to bring back to what Paola was saying is that some people will be like, oh, well I made it and I'm fine.

And why aren't you making it?

I'm like, honey, we're not the same people.

You know, there was a conversation at my dinner table, mom, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna say it here.

She saw a video on YouTube, got her news from there, and she's like, why are these immigrants coming in this way?

They're like, invading the country.

I'm like, mom, you crossed the border with me in 1992, what are you talking about?

And I had to check her.

I'm like, you cannot be like talking about this news that you got from YouTube that you don't, I don't know what channel she got it from with this.

All these bad references.

I'm like, you are a leader in your community.

You cannot talk about immigrants this way.

You are one.

And so just going back to the fact that Paola brought up, like, some people will pull up the ladder away from the next person that's coming in.

It's, it's happening.

And so for me it is, it is just wild to see these things.

- Yeah.

There's, there's clearly a lot of storytelling that's happening, whether it's positive or negative, especially with regards to this.

But as I mentioned, you're both journalists, Brian, you've had a chance to, to really explore your Los Angeles community that you've been a part of.

Yeah.

Tell me some of the, the things you've had a chance to, to observe and, and hear from your, your compatriots.

Of - Course.

I think the number one thing in LA County is homelessness.

And I think that is part of this conversation right now is what was their dream about?

What do they want in the future?

Do they still want to be remain on the streets?

Some people that I've talked to, some people, some extras, I've talked to, some folks don't wanna live inside a, a inside four walls.

Some people, whether that's their ideology or because of other reasons, people won't make it if they're in a shelter.

That's one big issue.

The other issue is how different things have impacted the local economy from covid to the strikes in 2023 in Hollywood to now the fires.

And I am so sad when I go report out on a food, a new food spot that you should try 'cause it's a great deal.

And then six months later, two years later, they're closing.

And I'm like, what happened?

Like, they were so good and they had their heart in it.

And that's the story I'm seeing right now in Los Angeles is things are downsizing, they're closing.

You might even seen on Instagram or TikTok that LA is not popping at the nightclubs.

You know, the girls are not buying bottles, honey.

So what?

Everything's changing here.

Yeah.

The girls are not buying bottles.

Oh no.

I dunno how it is in New York.

Paola you know, - There, it's the same thing.

There was literally just an article around how I'm talking to you both from Brooklyn and how just like the clubs, there's like so many clubs that are starting to close because it's just like, like literally people can't afford it anymore.

And like, it's so expensive.

Yeah.

- I do also wanna say, I did talk about what my dream home would be like.

We each talked about our dream home, but to Brian's point, some people just wanna be fed, want to have a roof over their head, want to have some of these basic necessities that come with being a part of this country.

And I do wanna end with this last question because we, we are trying to figure out what this American is, what a American dream is.

And so I wanna start with you Paola, and ask, what would you say are like three main ingredients that need to be present in order to feel like someone can achieve a version of an American dream?

- Imagination is very important.

Like to, to imagine the life that you want to design.

And when I say imagine, like from your own view and your own gaze, and no one else's community is very important in a moment like this one, I think if we're learning anything is that it's so much harder to achieve this dream on your own versus when you have a community around you, you know, that is sort of like building together with you.

And then the third ingredient, I would say is to not forget like the, the most basic thing of all, which I think we often forget, we didn't even talk about any of this, which is like happiness, you know?

Like at least like in all of this, you can, you can live a, a dream that is small and be very happy, you know, and you can sort of spend your whole life trying to achieve this big dream and lose the joy.

And so I think the never forgetting that like basic fundamental thing that we so often forget, which is like, try and try and find happiness.

And so yeah, imagination, happiness and community.

- I thank you for, for that aha.

Moment of happiness.

'cause I feel like it's, it's so true that we lose the idea of scale.

Yeah.

Someone's American dream can be this big, someone's American dream can be larger than this, you know, building that I'm in now.

Yeah.

It's all a matter of perspective.

And so long as you find joy, that's where you're meant to be.

Brian, I hope you didn't think you were getting outta this question.

What would you say are three main ingredients - that is hard - to a particular American Dream?

How about I do a little tips that might help you get there?

- Okay.

- I think back on to like what makes you bring you joy or happiness?

What is something that is not your nine to five that will help you just mentally gather yourself?

For me, it is, you know, my dog Bigotes, his name is Bigotes cause he has mustache.

He loves to go on walks and he rescued me because I am, I, I, I work a lot and I do a lot of things, but he reminds me to slow down.

I wanna go and smell the roses dad.

And I'm like, fine, we'll do that.

And so I think it is like taking steps towards your happiness that will allow that to happen.

You know, I think we forget about like, these are great ideas, but like get, do the little steps in between another part to getting to your, to your, to your American dream.

I think it's also like the empathy part that I mentioned earlier is like, you know, be empathetic towards other people.

Sympathy and empathy are different things.

Look them up, you know?

But I, I think it's treating others with respect and kindness and you'll get that return.

I, in, in the sense of community and, and enacting the community is don't be afraid to ask for help.

Like, I, I'm definitely one of those Mexicanos that like, don't like to ask for help because I'm like, I could do everything by my own.

I'm a bad, but we need help.

I feel that for that, yeah, we need help and it's okay to, to ask for it, you know, it's not a bad thing.

And so these are my little tips to add to the pot.

- So the melting pot that is America, look at that.

Just all these ingredients in order to make a nice caldo.

I wanna thank both of you for joining me for this.

It really was an existential conversation about like, what are we doing in this, like globe of life where we, we feel like we got it going on, but maybe not so much.

Like, I just like having these hypothetical questions that allow us to think a little bit more about what we're placed on this earth to do.

And so I could not have thought of two better people to have this conversation.

So thank you so much for joining me today.

- Thank you.

This was like therapy, honestly.

So I'm, I'm good for the week.

Truly.

- Same canceling my session this week.

Yeah, literal Do it, do it.

Why not.

And I do wanna remind our listeners, if you want to send us your thoughts about what the American dream is or what your version of the American dream is, please send us an email at hyp@kqd.org.

Or if you want, send us an idea for an upcoming episode.

But until then, peace everybody.