♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> On this edition of "Connections," Hispanics and jobs in South Carolina.

Hi, I'm P.A.

Bennett, and welcome to "Connections."

Nationally, Hispanics are the largest minority group.

In South Carolina, they are said to make up about 4% of the population.

What impact are they having on the jobs picture in the state?

Are they creating jobs, taking jobs, or bringing in much-needed skills?

With us to discuss those questions are Evelyn Lugo.

Ms. Lugo is the president of the South Carolina Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

Mr. Ivan Segura.

He is a workforce development consultant.

And Dr. Myriam Torres.

Ms. Torres, or Dr. Torres, is director of Consortium for Latino Immigration Studies at the University of South Carolina.

Thank all of you for being with us today.

This question of Hispanics in the U.S. and in South Carolina, it's a huge question.

And the question of jobs in South Carolina can be particularly irritating for some.

And I have to ask you, Dr. Torres, are Hispanics creating jobs, taking jobs, or filling much-needed job situations?

>> I believe we are filling a need, because people are coming here in different ways.

And one of them is work visas, through work visas.

And we have migrant and seasonal farm workers that are coming every year.

But we also have people who have overstayed their visas, their student visas or their tourist visas, too.

And it is hard to say for sure whether or not we Latinos are taking jobs from other people.

Sometimes people have that perception, but that's a reality at this point.

>> But let me ask you, as a consultant-- and you work one on one with folk every day looking for jobs and those looking to fill jobs-- how do you answer that question, "Are Hispanics in South Carolina filling much-needed positions, or are they taking jobs from other South Carolinians?"

>> I think they are meeting a need that the economy as a whole has in South Carolina.

Like Myriam mentioned, people fail to recognize that most of the individuals of Hispanic origin are in the States legally.

They're here because they have a green card, they have a work permit, or they are here to study.

But we get criminalized-- And you say everybody's on the comment that everybody's taking our jobs and things like that.

Isn't it interesting, like you have these pictures to show about the Hispanic community, and you're showing people in construction, in service industry, and when I have to advise to my clients, we get a whole spectrum of individuals.

It's not only construction.

It's not only farm work.

We have bilinguals.

We have a doctor in here with us.

And I need you, we need to recognize that this is a community that is taking part in the whole sector, not only some sectors, but definitely farm workers, they rely heavily in Hispanic labor force.

And most of the individuals working on the farms have a work permit.

And people just don't get to see-- They don't want to believe or don't want to see it, but most of them have a permit.

They are here legally to work, they come work for six months, they work very, very hard, and then they have to go back home.

And the next year, they might come back again.

But they are coming with a permit, so they are meeting that need, and they are just providing for the economy.

That's what we always try to stress out for individuals who are in community that are questioning why Hispanics are here and why they keep coming.

>> Evelyn, let me ask you, as the president of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce for South Carolina, do you see the Hispanic community actually creating jobs by starting businesses as well?

>> Certainly.

Not only within a family.

When they start a business, they start it with the family.

But that will extend to the community.

They will grow, and they will certainly offer those jobs to the community, and we have that spirit of entrepreneurship that is right there, and we just love to do our own businesses, to be our own bosses, and it's there.

We are a hard-working community.

We love to work.

>> You know, a recent statement by one of our senators indicated that the reason that a lot of employers hire Hispanic workers is because they work harder than other Americans.

You just said that Hispanics love to work.

Is that really the reason that employers hire Hispanic workers, because they work harder?

Or is because they will work for less?

We hear a lot of those rumors as well.

How do you respond to those rumors?

>> I would say that that is a myth right there.

I think that every group has hard workers.

It happens to be that Hispanics are in the spotlight, and then you see that everybody's saying that we work more than other groups.

But I think that, in every group, you'll find those hard workers.

Ours is just that it's known and it's showing, the way they work in the farms, the way they work in the construction.

Even in the professionals.

When you look into different corporations, you see that they are not absent that much, and they take pride in what they do.

But you have certainly that in the all the groups.

It's just happens to be that we are in the spotlight.

>> Is that a good thing or bad thing, though, to have that kind of, those kinds of things said about your community?

It sounds like a good thing-- you work harder-- but the work for less might be an issue.

How do you respond to that, Dr. Torres?

>> It definitely can be an issue.

However, the numbers don't show that as much.

And I was mentioning before the program started that in the mid-2000s, studies show that the wages in South Carolina fell, but they didn't fall for everyone at the same proportion.

So Latinos had the lowest fall of all.

And for Caucasians, there was no fall.

There was an increase in the wages.

And for African-Americans, there was less than 1%.

So, that doesn't show that we are getting those wages down, Latinos, like we hear people saying.

>> So the wages, you say, may have come down at one point for Latinos.

For the white community, there was decrease at all?

>> No, there was increase.

>> There was an increase in the white community, and for black folk in South Carolina, there was a slight, less than 1% decrease.

>> Less than 1%.

>> How do you see that, Ivan, working with people every day?

When people are, when employers are looking for workers, do they expect Hispanic workers to work for less and to work harder?

>> I wouldn't expect them to work for less, because that's why we have laws and regulations for the workforce.

I mean, there is a minimum wage!

And most of the times, when a employer comes to me, they already have a salary set for that position.

I think what Evelyn says is true.

We have hard-working people in all the communities.

We have people that don't work as hard.

What I don't like is when the sound bite of, well, we work harder than the other.

I mean, I don't feel you should tell an American that they don't work hard.

Because everybody works hard.

That's what America is.

That's part of capitalism.

But at the same time, you have companies trying to produce the most amount of goods with the least amount of money.

That doesn't mean they're going to reduce their salary, but we have all these industries that they always pay low-paying jobs.

It's a low-paying job.

Like the farm workers, the poultry industry, construction.

I mean, they always have kind of the same salary.

It's not that Hispanics have come to pull the wages down, it's that they always pay kind of the same.

The newly immigrated people, Mexicans, Central Americans in this case, are the ones they give the hard, labor-intensive jobs.

We don't want to say that Americans wouldn't-- They would do it, if they have to do it, but right now, you have this labor source that's willing to do it for the price it's always been.

And that leaves American people willing do go further their education, and then maybe they are the ones becoming the supervisor for the other people.

But that's not something the Hispanic community created.

It's something that's happened forever.

>> Let's talk about how people who are undocumented can work in this country, though, and pay taxes.

Because you were telling me about this.

I had no clue that we can be working, not be documented, and still be paying taxes.

How does that work?

>> Yeah, anyone can pay taxes.

And there is a Tax ID that someone can get and pay taxes, and many Latinos that are undocumented, they are paying those taxes, not just-- I mean, we all pay taxes when we buy anything, basically, except food in South Carolina.

But at the same time, they are paying those taxes for their income taxes.

And-- >> P.A.

: They're not paying it with the Social Security card, because they're undocumented, so they don't have a Social Security card, but they have this other number-- >> The Tax ID.

>> That Tax ID, that allows them to pay taxes.

>> To pay taxes.

And many people are doing that just so they are trying to do things right, to see if, in the future, there is a possibility to have a path to legal residency, that they have all their documents in order.

>> So is that why they're doing this, then, so that they will have a legal path to prove that they have been paying taxes all this time?

>> Yes, that is, and because they know that is the right thing to do.

>> And just to add to what Dr. Torres said, it is very important to realize and to recognize that this number that the people are getting to pay taxes is provided to them by the Internal Revenue Service.

So if they don't have a Social Security number, they'll write a letter to the Internal Revenue Service, and they'll send them back a number that happens to look just like a Social Security number.

It's the same format: 123-45-6789.

And they can use that to pay taxes.

Now, that's what we tell to other people.

You wanna get real, let's get real.

This is happening!

You didn't know about it?

Well, let me tell you this.

Also, I always tell everybody, you go to the grocery store, please let me know where is the line for the people that are in the community that don't pay taxes.

Because I want to see that line.

Maybe I'll go and stand in there, because they say we don't pay taxes.

Well, they do.

And if I write in my electricity invoice to pay them, I cannot say, well, because I'm in the community, I'm not going to pay these taxes.

I'm just going to pay what-- So, it's no-- But the sound bites, you know, that's what hurts us as a community.

So, you're taking my jobs, you don't pay taxes, and you do this, and I will say, "Well, educate yourself, and then we can have a better conversation."

>> Dr. Torres, I have to ask you, what-- Is the government aiding and abetting undocumented persons in this country?

>> You know, I cannot say yes, but what I can say is that probably the benefit is very high.

All this money coming in is helping all of us in return.

It's helping us in our Social Security in the future.

It's building that up.

So it's helping our roads, it's helping our schools, because people living here are paying all these taxes.

>> Let me ask you, then.

Why do you think, from what I can understand or what I see right now-- The DREAM Act, for example, is dead in the water.

You're getting all this flak from states like Arizona on immigration.

Why is there such an uproar if the undocumented persons in this country, if they're such a benefit to the U.S., why are we getting this flak and not passing laws such as the DREAM Act?

>> You have to remember something here.

This is a federal problem.

They have to-- They are the ones, really, to do something about the immigration.

But the states, each one has their own problems.

So they're taking this in their own hands.

And for me, what they're doing is really to push the idea of a reform.

There's something that has to be done that somebody's not doing.

That's the federal government.

They have to step in and do it.

President Obama, on the last message, he said, "I want this to be done," talking about the reform, but who is going to take the first step?

And there's a lot of money behind this.

I mean, we can benefit from getting a good reform, and getting these people to pay more taxes and to get into the system, but I don't know why they are not seeing that.

It is so simple, and they have complicated the issues.

>> They, and who is "they"?

>> Everybody.

When I say "they," it's just I don't have names.

Because when you look at the level where this is supposed to be taken care of, that's the federal level, and then you see that each state is taking their own laws into, or doing their own laws.

Then you have to think, who is the one that is not doing what they are supposed to be doing?

>> P.A.

: So how do you all respond to that?

>> It is very clear that all these issue with immigrants and specifically undocumented immigrants is the economic situation.

So we have to start blaming someone, and it is-- It was very easy, and it has been historically what happens when there is an economic downturn, that the immigrants are blamed and that's why this all is happening.

>> Segura: And is there an issue that can fit every political agenda?

I mean, you come in here, and you are a politician, and say, "Well, what can I tell my people so that can vote for me?"

Let's target the Hispanic community.

'Cause they are the ones taking our jobs.

Now, five years ago, the economy was, everything was fine, it was an issue, but it wasn't that big.

Why?

Because everybody was producing, because 97% of the people were working, and they were producing.

They were putting money on the Social Security system.

They were paying taxes.

They were just producing.

Everybody was happy.

But now that the economy's the way it is, that's when we've started looking for somebody to blame.

It's because of these people, it's because of that.

And of course, we have the diverse approaches that we have to immigration law because federal government has failed to implement something, to recognize that we have 12 million undocumented people in this country, and then the states are going and presenting these draconian laws.

Like, we have right now in South Carolina this proposal, which is SB20, that they want to do.

They call it an immigration, Arizona-style immigration law.

We have a law that was one of the toughest in the nation implemented three years ago.

We have some provisions in that law that have not been able to be put forward because we don't have the money to do it, and they come along and say, "Oh, we're gonna add this one to that," which is gonna add $84 million to the deficit.

They don't know where they're going to get the money, but they want to implement it.

>> I think it's interesting you say that this should be done on the federal level, but you're talking about people who are voted on on a local level, to send them to the federal level, and there not some great fear on the parts of these senators and representatives that if indeed I vote to have a less stringent immigration law that the people back home will give me a really hard time?

>> Probably.

But somebody needs to do it.

That's what Evelyn was saying.

Somebody needs to do it, because we have 12 million.

Now, we started talking about immigration when the economy went down like two years ago.

The 12 million are still there.

They've been around for ten years.

So 12 million people are still there, and if we go one more year, 12 million people are gonna still here.

So the issues are still there.

We need to do something about it.

Let's do something about it.

Let's just-- And of the course, the solution, we have the one saying, "Let's deport everybody to Mexico."

And we are like, first of all, they're not all from Mexico.

Second, that's a practical impossibility.

You cannot really round all these people up.

You're going to have to give them a trail.

Where are you going to house them?

12 million people!

So as long as we keep saying give amnesty to everybody-- that's what some of them say-- or let's send them all back home-- What about the middle?

And we say, like Dr. Torres was talking about, if you have proven yourself to be a good citizen or legal resident and you were paying your taxes, and you can prove to me that you've been paying taxes for the last three years, we're gonna lay you a path to legalize your situation.

That's why they do it, because they have the hope.

Like, I don't have a Social Security number, I'm gonna ask the government for an ID number so I can pay taxes, so in the future, if I have the opportunity to become legal, I'm gonna be able to prove I've been doing my part.

>> So you do think then that those folk with the ITN number have a leg up on becoming legal in the U.S., if you will, or documented in the U.S.?

>> At this point, we don't know.

We don't know, because there is-- It's very far.

If the DREAM Act that was, in my opinion, a "benign" law that was doing good to children who many were brought here when they were toddlers, who don't have any other country than the United States-- If that law that was kind of neutral, impartial, didn't pass, this other one is very far to pass.

A comprehensive immigration reform, I should say.

>> Let's talk about the as-is right here in South Carolina today.

What about numbers?

How many Hispanics do you think are living here in South Carolina now?

>> According to the census data, we have around 190,000, probably 200,000, according to the census data.

>> Is that a significant growth over the last few years?

>> It has.

'Specially since the early '90s.

>> And why have we seen more Hispanics coming to South Carolina?

>> Economic opportunities.

They come because they have jobs available around here.

>> Are they still, are those jobs still available?

>> Some of them.

I mean, this is, sometimes people ask me that question, "How has the economy affected the Hispanic community?"

The same as it has affected everybody else.

Everybody else.

It affected us first because one of the first industries to go down was construction.

And a lot of Hispanics work in construction, but not everybody.

Once again, I got all kinds of individuals coming into office, from managers that got laid off because the economy's the way it is.

So we have been affected just like any other community.

So we are a community like any other.

I mentioned that earlier, and now that Myriam mentioned the number, most of the people of Hispanic origin are legally in this state.

But when you talk to people, they consider everybody is undocumented because we look the way we look.

>> And I was surprised, Greenville has more Hispanics than any other part of the state, is that right?

>> Torres: Yes.

>> Explain to me why Greenville has so many Hispanics.

What's the draw for Greenvile?

>> In the early '70s, late '60s, the textile industry brought many people to work there, and many came from Colombia, South America, actually from a place that they are textiles workers, too.

So they came here and in larger numbers.

And so, you can see that flavor, Latino flavor, in Greenville.

And now we have a Mexican population, and from different other parts of Latin American, living there.

>> I know, Evelyn, you're in Greenville?

>> Lugo: Yes, ma'am.

>> And do you see that large Hispanic population and the effect in Greenville?

>> Lugo: All over the place.

And to add to what Dr. Torres said, another thing is that we are in the middle of two states, Georgia and North Carolina.

And we have seen influx from Florida, and from Rhode Island, from New York, coming here.

The word is spreading.

It's because of the way South Carolina is, its people, and the mild, even the mild weather, and because we have already a established community.

And we help each other, you know, in our communities.

We help each other.

>> P.A.

: Is South Carolina then seen as a good place to be, then, for Hispanics?

[sigh] >> That's a tough question.

>> South Carolina's a very traditionally-minded community, and it is hard for all newly, all new immigrated people, it is hard to live in South Carolina.

But it is seen as a good economic opportunity, yes.

>> Torres: And also, all these social networks.

That really is, it attracts people, because I know someone who's gonna help me to get through the system and learn how to rent a house, how to buy a car, and how to find a job.

Those social networks are very important.

>> P.A.

: One final question for you.

Do you think that the climate for undocumented people in this country, do you think that climate's going to improve?

Do you see any legislation in the near future that's gonna make a change, a difference, really, for undocumented persons?

>> Segura: I don't.

If anything, it's gonna get tougher as long as the economy continues to go down.

The situation for Hispanics is gonna get tougher, because they are talking about doing a new immigration law, an Arizona-style immigration law.

So things get more complicated for people that look different and that speak probably a different language and things like that.

So I don't see an improvement in the short term as long as the federal government once again don't do something about it.

'Cause that's where it has to come.

It has to come from the very top and say this is what we're doing for a situation that's global to the whole state.

I mean, the whole state and country.

>> P.A.

: Mm.

I do have to ask another question, because I hear this so much, and Ivan, you gave me an answer earlier that I think people need to hear.

There are people through South Carolina, and I hear it a lot in the Black community, that Hispanics take jobs from especially black folk in South Carolina.

How do you respond to that?

>> Segura: I would say that they are meeting a need that's very needed.

And there's a telling anecdote that I've been saying lately.

In the middle of the recession, like a year ago, the Employment Security Commission issued a newsletter with a big heading, "Farm Work is Plentiful."

And they went on to explain how there is a lot of opportunities at the farms for work.

And I'm thinking, I have this office full of people, hundreds of people looking for a job, and they are telling you there are jobs available.

But who's gonna take those jobs?

Labor-intensive, very hard, very low-paid jobs.

Not because the Mexicans or the Puerto Ricans or the Central Americans have made them cheap labor, because it's always been like that.

And having a community that has to struggle with discrimination, racism, lack of immigrant documentation, lack of access to resources, the language barrier... All those issues we have as a community lead us not to care-- or not not to care, but not to be aware of-- there is this other community that supposedly doesn't like us because of this or that.

I mean, we have so many issues that we say, you know, they really don't mind that they don't even know that you're upset with them because he's supposed to be taking your jobs, because you ask to him, he's gonna say, "I only need a job.

"I have so many issues that I'm not really concerned about, "like, why don't you like me?

"I'm just trying to better my family, as I think you are doing it."

But of course, this is also a political issue when members in some communities will use it to push one community against the other, and then divide and conquer.

>> Thank you all for being with us today.

Great information, learned a lot today.

And we really want to hear from you.

Well, that's our show.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Remember, stay connected.

I'm P.A.

Bennett, and I'll see you next time, right here on "Connections."

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