I want to talk in the last minutes that we have about the thing that we're not talking about, you just mentioned it, which is Donald Trump, who in any other debate, we'd be talking about the velocity of lies.

I'm not going to use euphemism, falsehood, whatever.

He just made up stuff all throughout the debate here.

Just watch this brief clip.

Donald Trump (R), Former U.S. President, 2024 Presidential Candidate: I could see what was happening.

Everybody was saying they're going to be there on January 6th.

And I said, they ought to have some National Guard or whatever, and I offered it to her, and she now admits that she turned it down.

She said, I take full responsibility for January 6th.

He can take the life of the baby in the ninth month, and even after birth, because some states, Democrat-run, take it after birth.

He's willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I mean, we're not doing a fact-check here.

The her in the first episode was Nancy Pelosi, by the way.

But, Mark, let's talk about this just for a minute.

Those are extraordinary claims to make, and yet we're talking about Joe Biden's ability, literal ability to serve.

Not a healthy situation for democracy.

Mark Leibovich: No.

And I would say that, that even the most Olympic level debater in the most nimble person, you could think of, you know, Pete Buttigieg, Gavin Newsom, Mitch Landrieu, I don't know, if he was up there or she was up there, you would have a tall order.

Do you correct this?

Do you not correct that?

Do you attack here?

Do you defend yourself here?

Do you call out this lie, that lie?

I mean, if you're a moderator, it's a whole other thing.

So, that's a big challenge.

And when you have the extremely limited, obviously, capacity that Joe Biden demonstrated last night, you have a recipe for an absolute disaster, which is what we had.

So, it's a really tall order.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes.

Nikole, let me ask you this something interesting today.

The Democratic Party is in a panic over Biden's age and seeming infirmity, but the Republican Party doesn't seem to be in any kind of panic about the fact that Donald Trump made up stuff throughout the debate.

What does that tell you?

Nikole Killion: Yes.

Well, and also just to piggyback, I mean, I think in terms of Nancy Pelosi, who I also spoke to today, I mean, she responded to Trump calling what he said, sick.

So, there's that.

But I think in terms of Republicans, I mean, look, they are doing victory laps.

I mean, at the end of the day, at least again, from the performative aspects of this debate, their candidate won.

That's what, you know, all the snap polling shows.

So, they do have a reason to feel upbeat and optimistic.

Furthermore, it's part of their drumbeat.

It's part of their narrative that, you know, they have said, well, we've been telling you about the president's decline now.

You can see it for yourself.

That being said, you know, I did put that question to some Republican leaders today about whether or not they thought the former president was being truthful and, you know, they took a beat.

So, you know, I think it's kind of a similar dynamic in the sense that, publicly, they're going to back their guy even if, privately, they may disagree with him on certain issues, like January 6th.

Jeffrey Goldberg: It's just fascinating that his truthfulness is not the main subject of debate in Washington today, maybe because we've gotten used to something.

But, I mean, we could obviously continue this conversation all night and we'll be talking about this in the weeks ahead, but, unfortunately, we need to leave it there for now.