♪ ♪ >>TONIGHT, THE MEDIA VS.

THE PRESIDENT.

ALSO TONIGHT, 5,000 ONONDAGA COUNTY RESIDENTS ARE LOSING FOOD BENEFITS.

AND, SOCIAL SECURITY RESERVES WILL SOON RUN OUT.

STAY TUNED FOR MORE, FROM THE "IVORY TOWER."

GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY.

WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.

I'M YOUR HOST, NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS JOINING ME AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE: BEN BAUGHMAN OF GANNON UNIVERSITY CHAD SPARBER OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY, AND ANIRBAN ACHARYA OF LE MOYNE COLLEGE.

WHETHER THE SUBJECT IS THE WAR IN IRAN OR HIS ANNUAL CHECKUP, THE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND THE MEDIA SEEMS NEVER-ENDING.

THIS WEEK THE PRESIDENT BLASTED THE MORNING JOE SHOW AS "ONE OF THE MOST INACCURATE" NEWS SHOWS.

LAST WEEK HE WALKED OUT OF AN INTERVIEW WITH NBC'S KIRSTEN WALKER WHEN SHE STATED THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE FOR HIS CLAIMS ABOUT JANUARY 6TH.

THERE'S A CONSTANT BACK-AND-FORTH OVER WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH AND WHAT THE TRUTH IS.

TONIGHT WE ASK: SHOULD JOURNALISTS FACT-CHECK THE PRESIDENT AND OTHER OFFICIALS IN REAL TIME OR SHOULD THEY LEAVE IT TO THE AUDIENCE TO SORT FACT FROM FICTION?

BEN, START US OFF.

>> IT NEEDS TO BE INFORMATIVE BUT NOT AS CONFRONTATIONAL.

THERE ARE A FEW THINGS SHE HIT HIM UP ON BACK TO BACK AND DISRUPTIVE SETTING WITH THE RAIN BEING LOUD WHERE THEY WERE AT.

SO THERE WERE A FEW THINGS GOING ON THERE.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MORE OF A BALANCED TONE.

ASSERTIVE BUT NOT ADVERSARIAL.

>> ASSERTIVE BUT NOT ADVERSARIAL.

SO YOU ARE OKAY WITH THE PRESIDENT BEING FACT CHECKED.

ANIRBAN, WHERE ARE YOU ON THAT?

>> I REMEMBER THE MILAN KUNDERA QUOTE FROM ONE OF HIS NOVELS.

IT SAYS THERE IS A DIFFERENT BETWEEN ASKING QUESTIONS AND DEPENDING ANSWERS.

JOURNALISTS DO BOTH, THEY ASK OPEN ENDED QUESTIONS AND DEMAND ANSWERS.

IT IS MALFEASANCE IF THE JOURNALISTS DO NOT ASK DIFFICULT QUESTIONS AND DO INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM AND DON'T EXPOSE THE TRUTH, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND PAPERS LIKE "NEW YORK TIMES" THAT REGULARLY COLOR THE NEWS IN A CERTAIN WAY.

THERE IS A BOOK CALLED THE RECORD OF THE PAPER, HOW "THE NEW YORK TIMES" MISREPRESENTS U.S.

FOREIGN POLICY.

A VERY POPULAR BOOK THAT CAME OUT THAT SHOWS "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAS REGULARLY MISREPRESENTED THE U.S.

FOREIGN POLICY IN A WAY THAT WAS KIND OF A PROPAGANDA FOR THE U.S.

ADMINISTRATION.

DOESN'T MATTER WHICH ONE, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATS.

I THINK PURELY OBJECTIVE NEWS IS CHIMERA.

IT DOES NOT EXIST.

THE NEWS EXISTS WITHIN POWER, WITHIN THE POWER STRUCTURE SO THERE ARE ALWAYS QUESTIONS THAT, OH WHAT DO YOU MENTION, WHAT DO YOU LEAVE OUT.

WHAT DO YOU CALL HIM A TERRORIST OR A FREEDOM FIGHTER.

THESE ARE ALL DIFFERENT THINGS THAT COME UP WITH US.

SO I THINK THE JOURNALISTS SHOULD PRESS ON.

AND DEMAND ANSWERS FOR CERTAIN QUESTIONS.

NOT PERHAPS IN A COMBATIVE MANNER BUT AS A MANNER OF JOURNALISTIC ETHICS.

>> UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT'S RIGHT.

AND WELKER IS MY FAVORITE OF THE SUNDAY MORNING NEWS HOSTS SO I'M GOING TO SIDE WITH HER ALL THE TIME.

TRUMP PRESENTS SOME UNIQUE CHALLENGES.

CHECKING HIM ON FACTS WOULD BE EXHAUSTING.

WHERE WOULD YOU BEGIN.

HOW DO YOU SEPARATE LIES FROM HYPERBOLE.

HE SAID THIS LAST WEEK, I LOVE THE INFLATION.

THE NEWS KILLED HIM ON THIS AND ALMOST CERTAINLY IT'S NOT TRUE THAT HE LOVES INFLATION BUT HE SAID IT.

AND THIRD HE IS SUPER LITIGIOUS.

YOU GO TO THE ABC EXAMPLE WHERE ABC COUGHED UP $16 MILLION BECAUSE GEORGE STEPHANOPOLIS REPEATEDLY SAID THAT TRUMP WAS FOUND LIABLE OF RAPE WHEN IN FACT HE HAD BEEN FOUND-- I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GOT THE WORDS RIGHT, LIABLE FOR SEXUAL ABUSE.

SO IF THE PRESS GETS THE FACTS WRONG, THEY'RE ON THE HOOK FOR MAJOR CASH.

>> THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT SOMETIMES THE MEDIA SIMPLY GETS IT WRONG, BUT HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A PUBLIC OFFICIAL OFFERING A VIEWPOINT TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AND THEN A JOURNALIST SAYING NO, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS INCORRECT.

WHY NOT JUST ALLOW THE AUDIENCE, BEN, TO SORT FACT FROM FICTION?

>> WELL, I THINK AN UNBALANCED APPROACH WOULD ALLOW FALSE NARRATIVES TO PERMEATE A BIT MORE THAN IT ALREADY DOES.

THE FLIP SIDE IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE AGGRESSIVE QUESTIONING.

RISKING A PERCEIVED BIAS AT THE VERY LEAST IF IT IS NOT ALREADY AND ERODES TRUST THAT IS ALREADY BEING ERODED WITH OUR POLARIZED SOCIETY.

SO YOU GOT TO CHECK THE FACTS.

BUT AS CHAD WAS POINTING OUT, IT'S A VERY LIMITED TIME WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE.

AND HAVE YOU TO HAVE ONE-- IF YOU ARE GOING TO GO AFTER THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THERE NEEDS TO BE ONE THING VERSUS TWO, THREE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY-- AS YOU HAVE WITH ALL POLITICIANS, THAT ARE GOING TO SPEND THINGS, TRY TO REDIRECT THINGS, AND IT JUST BECOMES TOO COMBATIVE AT THAT POINT.

SO I THINK WITH THE LIMITED TIME YOU HAVE TO PICK SOMETHING.

HE IS NOT GOING TO ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY THERE WAS ELECTION FRAUD IN 2020.

HE IS NOT.

HE HAS ALWAYS PUT FORWARD THAT, SO WHY CHALLENGE HIM ON JANUARY 6.

STICK WITH THE WAR, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO ASK ABOUT.

>> OKAY, SO YOU SAY THEY'RE-- OR CBS, THEY'RE USED TO THIS KIND OF THING.

>> LET ME SAY SOMETHING ON THE DATA.

IT'S THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA THAT REPUBLICANS CALL THE LAME STREAM MEDIA.

AND GALLUP HAS DONE STUDIES THAT SHOW IT'S THE 18-49 YEAR OLDS WHO ARE LEAST TRUSTING OF TRADITIONAL MEDIA OUTLETS.

WERE YOU GOING TO SAY SOMETHING, CHAD.

>> WELL, I COULD SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

I MEAN I THINK THAT THIS MEDIA CREDIBILITY PROBLEM THAT YOU ARE CITING HAS A LOT TO DO WITH FRAMING, WHICH YOU RAISED ANIRBAN.

AND LIKE AS ONE EXAMPLE, THERE IS AN ACADEMIC PAPER PUBLISHED IN SCIENCE PRETTY RECENTLY THAT FOUND THAT MISLEADING CONTENT FROM MAINSTREAM NEWS WAS THE PRIMARY DRIVER OF COVID VACCINE HESITANCY AND IT'S BECAUSE THESE COMPANIES ARE INCENTIVIZED TO WRITE CLICK BAIT HEADLINES THAT ARE DESIGNED TO CAUSE INACCURATE PERCEPTIONS.

THEY TELL INCOMPLETE TRUTHS AND THEY HAVE MASSIVE OUTREACH.

SO THAT BECOMES PROBLEM IN A TRUTH SPHERE.

ANOTHER, AND FORGIVE ME I'M GOING TO GET IN TROUBLE-- THINK ABOUT MICHAEL BROWN'S DEATH MORE THAN A DECADE AGO IN FERGUSON, MISSOURI.

COULD YOU WRITE A HEADLINE THAT SAYS POLICE SHOT AN UNARMED TEENAGER OR YOU COULD WRITE A HEADLINE THAT SAYS POLICE SHOT A 290-POUND MAN AFTER A PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION.

BOTH OF THOSE STATEMENTS ARE TRUE BUT THE FRAMING ABSOLUTELY DICTATES THE WAY THAT A PERSON PERCEIVES THE REST OF THE STORY.

AND SO THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE BIAS THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT OR EXAMPLES OF WHERE THAT BIAS IS COMING FROM.

>> AND TO THE FAMING STANDPOINT, THE PODCASTS THAT THE YOUNGER GENERATION TENDS TO LISTEN TO IS MORE INFOTAINMENT IN A LOT OF THEM.

SO THAT EDGINESS AND THOSE SOUNDBITES ARE ESSENTIAL TO BEING SUCCESSFUL AND BEING A PODCAST MORE THAN ONE OR TWO TIMES.

>> IT'S CLICK BAIT.

BUT THEN ALSO FOR MAINSTREAM MEDIA, THERE IS AN ASPECT OF GAS LIGHTING THAT GOES WITH THE NARRATIVES AND HOW THEY'RE CONSTRUED.

LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION.

WHAT ABOUT THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATION COMMISSION STEPPING IN TO DO MORE REFEREEING OF THE PUBLIC SPHERE?

THAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH IT WAS ESTABLISHED IN THE 1930S AND DO YOU TRUST THEM TO DO THAT?

>> I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT BUT I DON'T THINK... >> WHY ARE YOU NOT IN FAVOR OF THAT?

>> WHENEVER THE GOVERNMENT COMES TO SHAPE THE PUBLIC SPHERE SAYING WHAT YOU CAN OR CANNOT SAY, WE ARE TREADING ON REALLY BAD WATER.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT LEFT OR RIGHT.

>> THE FOURTH ESTATE OR WHATEVER, NO, NO.

THE FACT CHECKING KIND OF GO BACK TO THE EARLIER POINT.

THE FACT CHECKING IS IMPORTANT.

THERE IS LIKE THAT DONING-KRUEGER EFFECT THIS COGNITIVE BIAS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OR COMPEN AT THIS WHERE THEY OVER ESTIMATE WHAT THEY ACTUALLY KNOW OR EXPERTISE ABOUT AN ISSUE.

YOU CAN'T RELY ON PEOPLE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH.

>> WHO IS GOING TO GET IT RIGHT IF IT IS NOT THE FEES OR THE MAINSTREAM STREAM OR THE PEOPLE, WHO ENSURES THE FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF A.I.

>> SO WE ARE BACK IN A CIRCLE, RIGHT?

>> YOU CAN LOOK AT ACADEMIC WORK, YOU CAN LOOK UP OTHER SITES THAT REGULARLY FACT CHECK PARTICULAR ISSUES.

THERE ARE PLACES WHERE YOU CAN FIND OUT AND THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT WHAT IS WHAT IS APRIL UNIVERSITY SOURCE.

AND THEN THE LEGACY NEWS WHERE YOU HAVE THE ASSETS.

IT MAY NOT BE IN THE MOMENT THAT YOU ARE CONFRONTATION A. IT MAY BE THE ONE THING YOU STICK TO THAT YOU CHALLENGE BUT THERE CAN STILL BE FACT CHECKING AFTER.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU PUT FORWARD.

THE PROBLEM THAT CHAD POINTS TO IS A PSYCHOLOGICAL THUNK THAT WE TEND TO STICK TO THE FIRST THING THAT WE HEAR.

>> CONFIRMATION BIAS.

POST STANDARD REPORTS THAT OVER 5,000 ONONDAGA COUNTY RESIDENTS ARE LOSING FOOD BENEFITS, THANKS TO NEW RULES FROM THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL.

THE NEW RULES FOR SNAP, OR THE FEDERAL SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, EXPAND THE AGE RANGE FOR WORK REQUIREMENTS TO INCLUDE UP TO 64 YEARS OLD.

AND THEY CUT OFF FOOD BENEFITS FOR IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES WHO DON'T HAVE A GREEN CARD.

SO, CHAD, TALK ABOUT US ABOUT THESE WORK REQUIREMENTS.

THEY'RE NOT KNEW, YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT WHY WE ARE HERE?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO LET ANIRBAN DATABASING OVER THIS ONE BECAUSE I THINK HE IS A BETTER EXPERT ON THE SNAP PARTICULAR LATERS.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ARE NEW FROM THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL IS THAT THOSE WHO HAD ALREADY PROVEN THEIR ELIGIBILITY HAVE TO REMOVE THEIR ELIGIBILITY, RIGHT?

SO THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE ELIGIBLE BEFORE BECAUSE OF DISABILITY, BECAUSE OF OTHER CARE ISSUES.

THEY HAVE TO NOW GO AHEAD AND PROVE IT AGAIN.

AND THAT'S A BURDEN.

I GET THAT.

ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO MAKE SURE THERE IS SOME LOGIC BEHIND THAT.

WHAT I THINK IS VERY DIFFICULT, AND AGAIN IN ONE NATION UNDER GOD WHERE SOME MUST STARVE, HERE IS THE THING.

IF YOU ARE NOT A PERMANENT RESIDENT, APPARENTLY YOU CANNOT APPLY FOR THESE AIDS NOW.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BLOCKED THE PATH TO PERMANENT RESIDENCY FOR MANY OF THE REFUGEES.

IT IS GOING UP TO THE SUPREME COURT.

WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

AS OF NOW, 39 COUNTRIES, THE UM IMMIGRATION SERVICES ARE NOT GOING TO PROCESS THEIR GREEN CARDS.

IF THAT IS THE CASE AND YOU ARE A REFUGEE IN SYRACUSE WHICH WE HAVE A LARGE INTAKE OF REFUGEES ABOUT 6100 REFUGEES IN ONONDAGA COUNTY ARE SET TO LOSE SNAP, WHAT DO YOU DO?

A: YOU FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE CHANGE OF STATUS, OTHERWISE YOU CAN BE DETAINED.

IF YOU DO APPLY FOR THE CHANGE OF STATUS, YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT GREEN CARD WILL BE PROCESSED.

IN THE MEANTIME, YOU ARE IN THE UNITED STATES COMPLETELY LEGALLY, BASED ON INTERNATIONAL LAW, BASED ON VETTING, BASED ON OUR OBLIGATION ACCORDING TO FEDERAL LAW TO INCLUDE REFUGEES.

WITH ALL THAT, THEN WHAT DO DO YOU?

YOU GO WITHOUT FOOD?

I GUESS.

OR THERE ARE OTHER SOCIAL SAFETY NETS.

WE HAVE THE INTERFAITH COALITION, THE NEW YORK FOOD BANK, THEY WERE GOING TO STEP UP.

BUT I THINK IT IS CRUEL, RIGHT?

IF YOU ARE A REFUGEE, YOU DIDN'T COME HERE ILLEGALLY.

AND YOU NEED CERTAIN BENEFITS AND THERE ARE OTHER PLACES, NORTH SIDE WHERE THERE ARE SMALL SHOPS THAT DEPEND UPON THAT.

25 TO 30% OF THEIR SALES IS BASED ON... THOSE BUSINESSES WILL BE HURT AS WELL.

>> IT'S NOT JUST REFUGEES.

IT'S IMMIGRANTS.

THIS DIDN'T BEGIN WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION NOT ENTIRELY.

IT WAS THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION IN 196 THAT IMPLEMENTED A FIVE-YEAR WAITING PERIOD FOR IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES.

YOU ARE SAYING WHAT IS DIFFERENT IS THAT IT IS HARSHER.

>> IN THE SENSE THAT IF YOU I DON'T APPLY FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCY, IF YOU ARE NOT A PERMANENT RESIDENT, YOU DON'T GET THE BENEFITS BUT THEN AGAIN THE PERMANENT RRNSY IS CLOSED FOR MANY REFUGEES SO YOU ARE IN A BIND AS TO WHAT TO DO.

>> YOU ARE CONFLATING TWO ISSUES.

I'M HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE, TIME PERMITTING LATER BUT I THINK THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING IS CLASSIC QUESTION ABOUT AID VERSUS DEPENDENCY.

THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE WITHOUT INCENTIVIZING SOMETHING LIKE A PERMANENT CLASS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE PERMANENTLY DEPENDED UPON THE STATE FOR SURVIVAL.

IF YOU CAN WORK BUT CHOOSE NOT TO, WHY SHOULD YOU BE ENTITLED TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S EARNINGS?

I THINK THE THORNIER QUESTION IS WHAT YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT, WHICH IS THE DIFFICULTY OF ADMINISTERING THESE KINDS OF TESTS.

WE HAVE A COLLEAGUE AT COLGATE, MIKE LAVEER WHO IS AN EXPERT IN THIS ARENA WHERE HE SHOWED JUST THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF PAPER-- LIKE I CANNOT IMAGINE GOING THROUGH THAT PAPERWORK TO GET GOVERNMENT AID.

AND YOU KNOW, IF THE PROCESS IS SO BURDENSOME THAT RIGHTFUL RECIPIENTS ARE NOT GETTING THE AID, THAT DOESN'T STRIKE ME AS FAIR OR EFFICIENT.

SO I THINK I'M WITH YOU ON THE FIRST PART OF YOUR OPENING SALVO, NOT THE IMMIGRATION PART.

>> IF ARIZONA IS ANY EXAMPLE OF HOW BURDENSOME THE PAPERWORK REQUIREMENTS ARE, IT IS ACTUALLY CUT IN HALF SNAP BENEFITS JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THE PAPERWORK.

BEN.

>> AND I THINK WHAT WE ARE HIGHLIGHTING HERE IS HOW THINGS ARE FRAMED AS WELL.

IT TIES INTO THE FIRST DISCUSSION THAT IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THAT IS CONSERVATIVE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT VOTES MAGA OR G.O.P., AND YOU START-- YOU LEAD WITH THE IMMIGRATION THING, YOU ARE ACTUALLY FEEDING INTO HOW THINGS ARE FRAMED FOR THEM.

THAT HEY, WHY ARE WE PAYING FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.

WHY AREN'T WE DOING AMERICA FIRST?

AND SO YOU LOSE A BIG PART OF THE POPULATION IN THE CONVERSATION VERSUS YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE RETIRED, ELDERLY, THAT I THINK THEY WERE GETTING SNAP AT 55ISH AROUND THERE.

FACT CHECK ME ON THAT.

AND NOW I THINK IT GOT BUMPED 64.

SO HOW DO YOU GO BACK INTO THE JOB MARKET ALL OF A SUDDEN, IF YOU EVEN KNOW THAT THIS IS A THING, IF YOU EVEN THOUGH THAT THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL IMPACTED YOU IN SOME WAY AND THEN YOU HAVEN'T WORKED FOR FOUR OR FIVE YEARS.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THAT AND NOW GOT TO WORK 80 HOURS A MONTH?

>> WELL, LET ME SAY THIS.

THAT THE OTHER OPTION BESIDE WORKING 80 HOURS A MONTH IS TO GET SNAP JOB TRAINING, WHICH IS A PLUS, OR TO VOLUNTEER IN THE COMMUNITY.

SO DON'T THOSE OPTIONS SORT OF MITIGATE THE HARSHNESS OF THIS, ANIRBAN?

>> SURE, THEY DO, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT SEVERAL STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT WORK REQUIREMENT AND ALL THAT, THEY ARE ANTITHETICAL TO ACTUALLY HAVING A BETTER LIFE, YOU KNOW, REACHING A PARTICULAR GOAL.

THERE ARE SEVERAL STUDIES ABOUT THAT.

AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S CIRCUMSTANCES ARE DIFFERENT.

YES, AS YOU ARE POINTING OUT, YOU ARE 55 AND YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT HAVE OTHER DEPENDENCIES AND OTHER REASONS YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO WORK, DISABILITY, SOME MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

WHAT HAPPENS THEN, RIGHT?

WE CAN'T JUST SAY THAT, HEY, IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, I WILL NOT-- YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR FOOD.

WHICH IS SOMETHING I FEEL A LITTLE BIT PERVERSE IN MY IDEOLOGICAL MAKEUP THAT I WILL NOT GIVE YOU FOOD TO EAT IF YOU DON'T DO 80 HOURS OF CERTAIN THINGS.

AND AGAIN THERE ARE STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT DOESN'T REALLY WORK AT THE END OF THE DAY.

ECONOMISTS HAVE SAID THAT, IN FACT.

>> THE IDEA THAT LIKE FORCING SOMEONE TO WORK IS ANTITHETICAL TO A WEATHER WAY-- TO A BETTER WAY OF LIFE, WE CAN'T ALL LIVE A SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE.

THE IDEA, AGAIN.

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO THE EPRINGS OF OTHER PEOPLE ON A PERMANENT DEPENDENCY BASIS.

LET ME GO BACK TO WHAT BEN WAS TALKING ABOUT.

>> QUICKLY.

>> THE IMMIGRATION BIT.

>> VERY QUICKLY.

>> I THINK THAT THE ANTI-IMMIGRATION RHETORIC WILL GO DOWN IF WE ARE NOT GIVING BENEFITS TO IMMIGRANTS.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

THE NATION'S LARGEST RETIREMENT PROGRAM IS IN TROUBLE.

THE SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND IS ON TRACK TO DEPLETE ITS RESERVES IN JUST SEVEN YEARS.

THIS MEANS THE 68 MILLION PEOPLE IT HELPS TO SUPPORT, WILL SEE A MAJOR CUT IN MONTHLY BENEFITS, BY AS MUCH AS 24 PERCENT, UNLESS CONGRESS ACTS.

LET'S DIG INTO WHY THIS IS HAPPENING AND WHAT CONGRESS CAN DO ABOUT IT.

CHAD, TALK TO US ABOUT THE WHY.

>> THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM IS A PYRAMID SCHEME.

YOU MITE LIKE ASPECTS OF IT.

IT'S MORE TRANSPARENT IN ITS INTENT BUT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT YOU NEED A BIG BASE GENERATING LOTS OF REVENUE TO PROVIDE BENEFITS TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON TOP LIKE A PYRAMID.

POLITICIANS DON'T WIN ELECTIONS BY PROMISING TO RAISE TAXES AND CUT BENEFITS.

SO YOU GO BACK TO JUST 2024, LATE 2024, INSTEAD OF IMPROVING INSOLVENCY, CONGRESS PASSED THE SOCIAL SECURITY AND FAIRNESS ACT WHICH EXPANDED BENEFITS TO SOME GOVERNMENT WORKERS AND THAT VOTE PASSED THE HOUSE 327-75 AND IT PASSED THE SENATE 76-20.

IT WAS A BIPARTISAN EFFORT TO EXPAND SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS AT A TIME WHEN EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT WE NEED TO BE CONTRACTING.

AND SO, YEAH, DEMOCRACY IS THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM.

>> IN A DEMOCRACY WHERE SOCIAL SECURITY IS THE THIRD RAIL OF POLITICS, RIGHT, ANIRBAN?

>> I MEAN I AGREE WITH CHAD, LIKE THIS SCHEME, LIKE I TELL MY STUDENTS, WHEN YOU ARE PAYING FOR YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY, YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY.

YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RETIRING NOW.

AND IN F.D.R.

'S TIME IT WAS FOUR PEOPLE SUPPORTING ONE RETIREE.

MAYBE IT WAS SIX.

AND NOW IT'S TWO PEOPLE SUPPORTING ONE RETIREE.

AND AS OUR POPULATION AGES, AND LIVES LONGER AND WE HAVE LESSER AND LESSER PEOPLE WHO ARE EARNING, THIS WOULD COME TO A CRISIS.

BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN WAYS OUT; FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS A CAP AT $IS 84,000 FOR PAYROLL.

WHY DON'T WE REMOVE THE CAP AND INCREASE THE CAP ELIMINATE THE CAP ENTIRELY BUT DO NOT GIVE THE HIGH EARNERS EXTRA BENEFITS FOR THEIR HIGHER CONTRIBUTIONS OR AT LEAST REDUCE THEIR BENEFITS A BIT LITTLE.

THAT COVERS 75% OF.

>> Speaker: DOESN'T IT GO BACK ON THE PROMISE THAT LED FOLKS TO CONTRIBUTE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> I MEAN YOU ARE CUTTING IT OUT AT 148,000.

THEN INCREASE-- 184,000.

INCREASE IT.

THEN IT WILL KICK BACK UP AT 400,000 AND ABOVE.

WE WILL START THAT BACK AGAIN, RIGHT?

SO YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF GAP BETWEEN 184 AND 400 AND THEN YOU START PAYING FOR A HIGHER RATE OR FOR YOUR PAYROLL.

THE SECOND THING YOU CAN DO IS THAT YOU CAN DO A CERTAIN KIND OF COMPANY LA COLA ADJUSTMENT WHERE YOU HAVE JAW.D 1% BELOW THE WAGE INDEX RECOVERING 10 TO 25% ACCORDING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE.

THE MORE THING IS BRINGING MORE IMMIGRANTS AND HAVING THEM WORK AND PAY INTO SOCIAL SECURITY.

>> THAT'S ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT.

>> THEY OFTEN DO NOT TAKE THEMSELVES.

>> SO SOME OF THE OTHER ARGUMENTS, BEN ARE ON RAISE THE AGE FOR RETIREMENT AND WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO DO IS TO INVEST MORE SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTIONS IN THE STOCK MARKET.

YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> NOT ADDRESSING IT IS DEFINITELY NOT THE ANSWER.

I DON'T SEE IT-- I GET THAT IT PROBABLY, BECAUSE I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST.

I HAVE TO GO WITH WHAT CHAD IS SAYING.

BUT I DON'T SIGH IT LIKE AMWAY.

IT'S NOT LIKE A PYRAMID THAT IS A SHAM.

IT SHOULD BE HOW IT IS SOLD THAT YOU ARE PUTTING INTO IT.

SO IF WE NEED TO KNOW AHEAD OF TIME, IT SHOULDN'T BE LIKE A CHANGE LIKE NEXT YEAR I KNOW YOU ARE RETIRED BUT NOW WE ARE GOING TO MOVE IT UP FIVE YEARS AND HAVE YOU TO GO BACK TO WORK.

THAT'S CRAP.

SO, BUT IT CAN'T-- IT'S NOT A DICHOTOMY.

THERE ARE WAYS TO ADDRESS THIS TO AT LEAST EXTEND IT FROM NOT BEING GOING OUT IN SIX YEARS OR SEVEN YEARS.

>> IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU USE THE WORD SHOULD BE BECAUSE I THINK THE FIRST STEP IS DEFINING WHAT SOCIAL SECURITY IS OR WHAT IT SHOULD BE.

IS IT A PENSION SCHEME?

IS IT AN INSURANCE SCHEME TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM OUT LIVING THEIR RESOURCES?

OR IS IT A WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION SCHEME?

THAT INFORMS A LOT OF THE IDEAS.

>> ISN'T IT ALL OF THOSE THINGS?

>> BUT IT CAN'T BE.

HIS IDEA, ANIRBAN'S IDEA OF RAISING THE CAP MAKES SENSE IF IT'S A WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION SCHEME BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IF YOU THINK IT'S LIKE AN PENSI.

WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

IT JUST DOESN'T EXIST AND PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY-- A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T VAT BUILT TO SAVE UP ENOUGH TO RETIRE YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING.

>> WE ARE GOING TO FIGURE THIS OUT SOONER OR LATER.

NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE GRADE BOOKS AND STARTING WITH THE FS, BEN.

>> SO, MY F IS GOING TO GO TO CONSUMER CONFIDENCE.

PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE ECONOMY AND THEY'RE SEEING THE RISK INSTEAD OF THE STABILITY.

WHEN FAMILIES GET NERVOUS ABOUT MONEY, JOB SECURITY, WHETHER NEXT MONTH WILL BE WORSE THAN THIS MONTH, THAT'S A PROBLEM.

SLOWING THE ECONOMY DOWN OR AT LEAST IT SHOULD BE A WARNING SIGN THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN.

SO THIS WARNING SIGN OF UNCERTAINTY, IT'S STARTING TO IMPACT BEHAVIOR.

>> CHAD, THE ANNUALIZED INFLATION RATE NOW SITS AT 4.2%.

THAT'S THE HIGHEST IT HAS BEEN SINCE APRIL OF 2023.

AND IT'S THE THIRD STRAIGHT MONTH IN WHICH THE FIGURE HAS INCREASED.

SO MY F GOES TO TREASURY SECRETARY SCOTT BESSANT WHO HAS CHARACTERIZED INFLATION IS A SHORT-TERM BLIP AND CALLED IT TRANSITORY.

THIS IS A WORD THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION USED MUCH TO ITS PER EL.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> ISRAELI SETTLER VIOLENCE IN THE WEST BANK INCLUDING THE DESTRUCTION OF HISTORIC CHRISTIAN VILLAGE IN THE WEST BANK.

AMNESTY'S RECENT RESEARCH SHOWS PALESTINIANS AMONG THE WEST BANK AND HERDING COMMUNITIES ARE BEING FORCEFULLY ERASED FROM THESE ANCESTRAL LANDS AND IT SHOWS THE SETTLER VIOLENCE IS NOT AN ABERRATION OF BAD APPLES BUT INTEGRAL PART OF STATE POLICY.

>> EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW WHAT COMES NEXT AND THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS.

WE'LL START WITH YOU, BEN AND YOUR BIG SMILE.

>> MY A IS GOING TO THE CHAUTAUQUA INSTITUTE.

THEY HOSTED AN ALL COUNTY MUSIC FESTIVAL THIS PAST SATURDAY.

IT WAS THE 75th ANNUAL HOST THAT THEY HAVE DONE.

AND THE AMPHITHEATER WHERE THEY HELD IT HAVE HAD THE BEACH BOYS VISIT 14 TIMES, BB KING, SMOKY ROBINSON, THE EFFORT EVERETT BROTHERS AND FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT GAVE ADDRESSES AT THAT LOCATION.

>> CHAD,.

>> ARMENIA WHO VOTED TO RE-ELECT PRIME MINISTER NICOLE PASCHINYAN WHO SEEKS CLOSER TIES WITH AMERICA, EUROPEAN UNION AND HISTORICAL ADVERSARIES TURKEY AND AS AS.

HEADING INTO THE ELECTION, FORMER RUSSIAN PRESIDENT COMPARED HIM TO LEON TROT SKI.

THAT'S ALARMING BUT FOR NOW THERE IS HOPE FOR THIS FORMER SOVIET REPUBLIC.

>> MY A GOES TO THE RENOWNED JOURNALIST SEAN KIRST OUR VERY OWN LeMOYNE FACULTY FOR HIS WONDERFUL POIGNANT TEDX TALK AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY TITLED THE IMPERATIVE OF TRUE STORIES.

DESCRIBING THE BIRTH OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AS THE INDUSTRIALATION OF IDEAS.

HE INVITED LISTENERS TO FIND WAYS TO RECLAIM THE HUMAN ELEMENT WITHIN GOOD STORY TELLING TODAY AND IN DOING SO, STRENGTHEN THE EMOTIONAL BONDS THAT CONNECT US ALL.

>> BEN, I LOVE YOUR A. WHAT A WONDERFUL LINEUP.

THE BEACH BOYS, SMOKY ROBINSON.

>> THEY WEREN'T ALL THERE AT THE SAME TIME.

>> THAT'S OKAY.

>> IT'S AMAZING.

>> I LOVE THE IDEA THAT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET.

THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR YOU TONIGHT IN THE STUDIO.

BEFORE WE GO, A SHOUTOUT TO CAROLYN, WHO WROTE TO SAY THAT SHE LOVES THE SHOW BUT THAT SHE ALSO WANTS TO HEAR ALL, AND NOT JUST SOME, OF THE A'S FROM OUR COLLEAGUE, JENNIFER STROMER-GALLEY.

WE WILL MAKE THAT HAPPEN, CAROLYN.

MEANTIME, WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM THE REST OF YOU.

PLEASE WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR POST IT ON YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA, GO TO WCNY.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.