>> NOW, YOU ARE A FOUNDER OF SUSAN B. ANTHONY LIST, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> WHAT'S YOUR BIGGEST ACHIEVEMENT?

>> I THINK I WOULD SAY WE'RE LIVING IN IT RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS A -- WHICH IS A PRO-LIFE HOUSE, A PRO-LIFE SENATE AND A PRO-LIFE ADMINISTRATION.

♪♪ >> Bonnie: HELLO, I'’’M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY."

THIS WEEK WE CONTINUE OUR SERIES OF INTERVIEWS WITH WOMEN THOUGHT LEADERS.

OUR GUEST IS MARJORIE DANNENFELSER, PRESIDENT OF THE SUSAN B. ANTHONY LIST, A POLITICAL ORGANIZATION ADVANCING PRO-LIFE/ANTI-ABORTION WOMEN IN POLITICS.

WELCOME, MARJORIE.

>> Marjorie: THANK YOU, IT'S GOOD TO BE WITH YOU AFTER ALL THESE YEARS AGAIN.

>> Bonnie: THANK YOU.

YOU, TOO.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T START OUT AS A PRO-LIFE ADVOCATE.

>> NO, INDEED.

NO, I WAS VERY PRO-CHOICE.

I WOULD HAVE WORN THAT BANNER AND THAT STICKER ON MY LAPEL ANY DAY.

I WAS AT DUKE UNIVERSITY AND I WAS VERY REPUBLICAN BUT DEFINITELY PRO CHOICE.

>> Bonnie: AND THERE USED TO BE A VERY LARGE CONTINGENT OF REPUBLICAN PRO-CHOICE WOMEN.

>> Marjorie: THAT'S TRUE, AND I WAS ONE OF THEM.

AND I REALLY WANTED I WAS CO-CHAIR OF COLLEGE REPUBLICANS.

WE HAD TWO.

ONE WAS PRO-LIFE AND ONE WAS PRO-CHOICE SO I WAS THE PRO-CHOICE ONE.

AND I REALLY BELIEVED VERY STRONGLY THAT IT WAS THE QUESTION OF MY BODY AND MY CHOICE TO DO WITH IT AS I WISHED AND I DEFINITELY WOULDN'’’T HAVE ANY ANYONE GIVE ME COUNSEL OR ADVICE UNSOLICITED.

IF I HAD GOTTEN PREGNANT AT THAT TIME, WHICH I COULD'’’VE, I WOULD'’’VE DEFINITELY GOTTEN AN ABORTION AND I DON'’’T THINK I WOULD'’’VE THOUGHT TWICE ABOUT IT.

>> Bonnie: THAT'S FASCINATING INTELLECTUALLY NOW THAT YOU LEAD ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT IF NOT THE MOST PROMINENT PRO-LIFE ORGANIZATIONS.

WHAT CHANGED?

>> Marjorie: WELL, I THINK A LOT OF IT HAD TO DO WITH, I THINK WITH BECOMING A PHILOSOPHY MAJOR AND THEN AT THE SAME TIME, MEETING PEOPLE WHO VERY MUCH DISAGREED WITH MY POINT OF VIEW AND WERE VERY GOOD APOLOGISTS FOR THE PRO-LIFE POSITION.

AND I REALLY WAS RAISED TO PURSUE TRUTH.

WHEREVER THAT LED ME, THAT'S WHERE MY PARENT, MY BACKGROUND ENCOURAGED AND WHAT I WANT FOR MY OWN KIDS.

SO EVEN THOUGH I WAS DECIDE ODD THIS I ALWAYS HAD AN OPEN MIND, AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO STUDY PHILOSOPHY, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO, RIGHT?

SO I THINK I JUST GOT TO THE POINT, ESPECIALLY IN CONVERSATIONS WHERE IT WAS VERY HARD TO ANSWER THE QUESTION "““WHAT IS THAT THING THAT IS HAPPENING?"

EYES NOT AN APPENDECTOMY.

IT'S NOTE A TONSILITIS.

IT'S -- THERE ARE HAD A LOT OF THINGS THAT IT'S NOT.

AND SOMEHOW WE HAVE, WE HAVE GIVEN THAT ENTITY A LOT OF CONVERSATION AND MORE VALUE THAN JUST A PART OF YOUR BODY THAT'S BEING TAKEN OUT, SO WHAT IS THAT THING?

AND I HAD A HARD TIME ANSWERING THAT AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT PUT ME DOWN THE PATH OF EXPLORATION ABOUT HOW TO ANSWER THAT, WHAT IS IT.

HOW DID WE ALL BEGAN?

AND EVENTUALLY I GOT TO THE POINT OF SEEING THIS AS TWO PATIENTS, TWO PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH AND A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE BECAUSE OF THAT.

>> Bonnie: WHAT ROLE DID RELIGION PLAY IN THAT?

BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS CHANGED, CONVERTED.

>> Marjorie: I DID, AND SO DURING THAT TIME AS PROBABLY A PART OF THAT.

YOU KNOW IN COLLEGE HOW YOU THINK YOU GOT TO GET EVERYTHING SETTLED YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE, YOU GOTTA RUSH TO GET TO THAT, I WAS VERY MUCH IN THAT MODE I WAS AROUND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE PRO-LIFE AND A LOT OF CATHOLICS TOO AND I NER MET CATHOLICS.

I'M FROM A SMALL EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA TOWN, SO MY FIRST ENCOUNTER WAS IN COLLEGE, AND THEN WHEN I DID AN INTERNSHIP IN DC, AND I REALLY FOUND IT COMPELLING AND I REALLY STARTED TO THEN STUDY MEDIEVAL PHILOSOPHY WHICH I FOUND LIBERATING, NOT CONFINING IN ANY WAY, AND -- AND SO I THINK WAS AN OPENNESS TO TRUTH IN GENERAL IS HOW I FELT ABOUT IT AT THAT TIME, AND THAT'S WHERE THAT LED ME.

IT LED ME IN THOSE TWO PLACES.

I WAS PRO-LIFE BEFORE I WAS CATHOLIC, SO THAT -- MM-HM, YEAH.

IT'S A VERY DEFINED BUT ROBUST ARGUMENT, AND IT ENGAGES YOUR MIND IN A LOT OF -- A LOT OF CATEGORIES.

WHAT IS THE NATURE OF A HUMAN BEING?

WHEN DOES A HUMAN BEING BEGAN?

ARE YOU BODY, MIND, SOUL OR ARE YOU JUST BODY?

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE RELEVANT TO NOT ONLY THE ABORTION ISSUE BUT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE COSMOS.

ONE THING I SHOULD MENTION, TOO, IS I REMEMBER YOU SAID WHAT WAS THE THING, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS, OF COURSE, WHEN YOUR MIND CHANGES LIKE THAT, BUT I DO REMEMBER ONE PARTICULAR POINT IN COLLEGE WHERE I COULD NOT GET TO WHAT DO I THINK THAT THING IS, LIKE THIS THING THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TAKING OUT.

YOU KNOW.

BUT I WAS -- BUT I DID BECOME VERY WORRIED THAT IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT HAD A MORAL CHARACTER, A MORAL BEING THAT IS NOT -- THAT MIGHT BE THE EQUIVALENT OF A DEATH FOR YOU AND I.

AND AT THAT POINT I REALLY THOUGHT I WOULD NOT WALK INTO A ROOM, A DARK ROOM WITH A GUN NOT KNOWING IF THERE WERE -- IF THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE ROOM OR NOT, AND SO IT REALLY BECAME -- EVEN IF IT'S POSSIBLE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE AS A SOCIETY SHOULDN'T TAKE THAT CHANCE AND, OF COURSE, IT GREW FROM THERE IT BECAME A STRONGER CONVICTION THAT -- THAT THE TWO PEOPLE INVOLVED IN EVERY ABORTION HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS.

>> Bonnie: SINCE YOU CAME FROM THE OTHER SIDE, THERE WAS AT ONE POINT IN THIS COUNTRY A VERY ROBUST COMMON GROUND MOVEMENT.

WHICH STARTED AS FAR AS I CAN TELL 20 OR MORE YEARS AGO AND HAS PRETTY MUCH FIZZLED OUT TO NOTHING AT THIS POINT.

DO YOU BELIEVE THERE IS ANY COMMON GROUND ON THE ABORTION ISSUE?

>> I DO.

REALLY DO.

CLEARLY THERE'S NOT COMMON GROUND ON THE TWO EXTREMES.

I WOULD INCLUDE MYSELF IN THE -- IN A VERY STRONGLY COMMITTED GROUP BUT SMALLER GROUP THAT SAYS THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE IN EVERY ABORTION.

IT'S A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE FOR BOTH.

ON THE OTHER EXTREME IF THERE'S ONLY ONE HUMAN BEING TO CONSIDER, THE OTHER IS JUST A PART OF HER BODY AND SO IT'S REALLY NOT THAT MUCH OF A CONVERSATION.

THAT'S A SMALL GROUP.

BUT SO MUCH IN THE MIDDLE, THERE IS SO MUCH THAT WE DO AGREE ON.

ONE IS THAT A WOMAN IN CRISIS NEEDS OUR HELP.

TWO, THERE ARE SO MANY ABORTIONS THAT THE VAST MAJORITY AMERICANS AGREE THAT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED.

SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF -- THERE ARE THE CATEGORY LATE TERM ABORTIONS THAT THAT IS COMMON GROUND WITHOUT QUESTION.

THERE'S ALSO COMMON GROUND ABOUT A LOT OF ISSUES SURROUNDING THE QUESTION OF ABORTION.

SO WHO PAYS FOR IT?

WHO NEEDS TO SIGN OFF FOR A MINOR ABORTION?

SHOULD THERE BE, FOR MEDICAL ABORTIONS AND ABORTIONS THAT ARE AT HOME AND YOU'RE DOING AN ABORTION THROUGH PILLS, SHOULD THERE BE OVERSIGHT BY A PHYSICIAN?

OR SHOULD IT JUST BE A COMPLETELY ALONE PLACE WHERE YOU'RE DOING IT.

>> Bonnie: HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO COME TOGETHER WITH PRO-CHOICE LEADERS AND TURN SOME OF THOSE COMMON AREAS OF AGREEMENT INTO LAW?

>> Meterologist: I THINK BECAUSE THE PRO-CHOICE CAMP HAS EVERYTHING TO LOSE, MEANING THEY'VE FOR THE GOT ROE V. WADE AND LEGAL ABORTION UP UNTIL BIRTH.

AS HILLARY CLINTON BUT AT THIS TIME UNBORN CHILD HAS NO RIGHTS UNTIL BIRTH.

THAT'S EXPOSITION.

SUPPOSITIONS.

EVERYTHING THAT CHANGES THAT'S A LOSS FOR THEM.

>> THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF LOSS FOR THEM WHEN IT WAS BASICALLY PRETTY MUCH UNFETTERED ABILITY TO HAVE AN ABORTION.

SINCE THEN, OF COURSE, THEY HAVE PUT IN 24-HOUR WAITING PERIODS AND JUDICIAL APPROVAL FOR TEENAGERS, ALL CLINIC REGULATIONS ABOUT CLINICS HAVING TO MEET HOSPITAL CONSTRUCTION REGULATIONS, ALL THOSE SORTS OF OF THINGS.

IT'S VERY DIFFERENT WHAT IS LEGAL UNDER MANY STATE LAWS NOW VERSUS THE EARLY '70s RIGHT AFTER ROE >> Marjorie: SO THOSE LAWS THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO THAT HAVE BEEN UPHELD BY THE COURTS, THEY REPRESENTED A LOSS FOR THE PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT.

SO IF WE'’’RE TALKING ABOUT COMING TO COMMON GROUND BETWEEN PRO-LIFE AND PRO-CHOICE LEADERS, YOU DON'’’T COME INTO THAT THINKING THAT A LOSS WOULD BE COMMON GROUND.

THOSE WERE ALL CONSIDERED A LOSS FOR THEM, AND SO I THINK IT MAKES IT REALLY HARD.

I AM OPPOSED TO ABORTIONS AFTER FIVE MONTHS, NOT OPPOSED TO ALL OF THEM, BUT I'’’M ALSO OPPOSED TO THEM AFTER FIVE MONTHS, AND THAT WOULD BE AN OBVIOUS COMMON GROUND PLACE BUT THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A LOSS -- A GAIN FOR US, A GAIN FOR THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT PUT A LOSS FOR THE PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT >> Bonnie: YOU'’’RE TALKING ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT RULING, INSTEAD OF THE TRIMESTER THAT THERE'S AN ABSOLUTE STATE INTEREST AFTER FIVE MONTHS, MEANING THE PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT WOULD GIVE UP THE ABILITY TO HAVE TO, UNDER STATE LAW THAT THEY COULD NOT -- THE STATE COULD ABSOLUTELY BAN ABORTION EVEN IN THE CASE OF THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER AFTER FIVE MONTHS.

>> Marjorie: YEAH, THOUGH THERE ARE TWENTY STATES HAVE THAT LAW IN THE BOOKS, AFTER FIVE MONTHS, AND THEY ALL FOR THE LIFE -- THEY MAKE EXCEPTIONS FOR LIFE OF THE MOTHER AND SOME FOR RAPE AND INCEST.

SO THAT IS SOMETHING WE WORK VERY HARD TO PASS, AT A FEDERAL LEVEL TO PASS AND WE EMBED THAT IN OUR ELECTION STRATEGY.

WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMON GROUND, THE PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT DOES NOT CONSIDER THAT COMMON GROUND.

THEY CONSIDER THAT AN INFRINGEMENT UPON THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN BECAUSE FRANKLY IT MAKES RATIONAL SENSE.

IF IT IS TRUE THAT THIS IS NOT A BABY, THEN IT IS OUTRAGEOUS THAT WE WOULD DO THAT.

IT MAKES NO SENSE.

IF THERE IS A BABY, THEN CLEARLY THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG.

SO YOUR QUESTION I FIND REALLY COMPELLING, HAVING COME FROM THE OTHER SIDE TO THIS SIDE OF THE ISSUE AND CAN'T THIS BE SOME COMMON GROUND, I FEEL THE SAME WAY BETWEEN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH AND THE CATHOLIC CHOW VERY OFTEN SO IT GRIEVES ME THAT THEREY HASN'T BEEN AND I DON'T THINK IT'S INEVITABLE THAT IT HAS TO FIZZLE OUT OVER TIME, BUT WE DO HAVE TO COME UP WITH THINGS THAT BOTH SIDES FEEL THERE'S A WIN, AND I THINK SERVING WOMEN IN CRISIS PREGNANCY, HELPING THEM HAVE THEIR CHILDREN IF THEY SO CHOOSE, WITH ONE OF THOSE COMMON GROUNDS P I THINK THAT WE CAN COULD THAT FOR WOMEN AND ESTATE ASIDE OUR DIFFERENCES.

>> Bonnie: DO YOU EVER GET DEATH THREATS?

>> Marjorie: YES, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE IN THE UNDERBELLY OF THE TWITTER WORLD LIKE I AM, YEAH.

I DON'’’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY, THOUGH.

>> Bonnie: SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE NOT CONSTANTLY -- WELL, I TAKE IT AREAS SERIOUSLY IN TERMS OF MY OWN SAFETY AND MY CHILDREN'S SAFETY, I DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

>> Bonnie: ALL THE MURDERS OF ADULT HUMAN BEINGS HAVE BEEN DONE BY PRO, THAT I KNOW OF, A PRO-CHOICE PERSON HAS NEVER MURDER OFFED A PRO-LIFE DOCTOR, BUT IT HAS HAPPENED NOW SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES THAT THAT -- OR RIFLE ATTACKS ON CLINICS AND THAT SORT OF THING WHY IS THAT?

>> Marjorie: I DON'T KNOW WHY.

I THINK THAT THERE IS NO GOOD, THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION, THERE IS NO GOOD REASON.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE CRAZY PEOPLE ALL OVER THE PLACE AND IN EVERY INSTANCE THAT I KNOW OF THAT HAS BEEN THE CASE.

AND THOSE PEOPLE NEEDED A LOT OF HELP BEFORE THEY GOT TO THE POINT OF MURDERING ANOTHER PERSON IN THE NAME OF LIFE >> Bonnie: YOU ARE A FOUNDER OF THE SUSAN B ANTHONY LIST RIGHT?

>> Marjorie: YES.

>> Bonnie: WHAT'S YOUR BIGGEST ACHIEVEMENT?

>> Marjorie: I THINK I WOULD SAY WE'’’RE LIVING IN IT RIGHT NOW WHICH IS A -- WHICH IS A PRO-LIFE HOUSE, A PRO-LIFE SENATE, AND A PRO-LIFE ADMINISTRATION.

WE'’’RE SET UP TO REALLY MAKE HISTORY IN TERMS OF THE LAW, IN TERMS OF PROTECTING UNBORN CHILDREN AND THEIR MOTHERS AND I WOULD REALLY HAVE LOVE TO COME BACK ON WHEN WE'VE PASSED A LAW, THAT FIVE-MONDAYS LAW.

THAT WOULD BE AN ENORMOUS ACCOMPLISHMENT.

I THINK ASIDE FROM -- THAT'S THE RESULT, BUT I THINK WHAT LED TO THAT RESULT WAS HELPING POLITICIANS UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS POSITION, PRO-LIFE POSITION, YOU SHOULD MEAN IT, YOU SHOULD RUN ON IT, AND YOU SHOULD FOLLOW THROUGH WHEN YOU GET ELECTED, AND THAT IS WHAT OUR HOLE APPARATUS AT THE SUSAN B. ANTHONY LIST HAS BEEN SET UP TO YOU IF >> Bonnie: ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH REPUBLICANS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

>> Marjorie: I THINK THAT IT HAS GOTTEN BETTER AND BETTER AND BETTER, AND I THINK IT TAKES DOMIN, POLITICAL DISCIPLINE, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE SEE OURSELVES AS.

WE HELP ELECT, WE EMBED THE POLICY AGENDA IN THE ELECTION, AFTER THE ELECTION WE ARE THERE AS FRIENDS AS FRIENDS STILL TO SAY NOW IT'S TIME TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON WHAT YOU SAID THAT YOU BELIEVED.

AND I THINK THAT USED TO BE PROBLEMATIC AND I THINK NOW BECAUSE WE ARE MUCH STRONGER AS A MOVEMENT AND WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE OR BREAK ELECTIONS, IT HELPS THEM NOT ONLY DO THE RIGHT THING BUT IT'S THE POLITICALLY SMART THING FOR THEM TO DO TO RUN HAD TO ISSUE AND THEN FOLLOW THROUGH ON LEGISLATIVE ACTION.

>> Bonnie: YOU'’’VE BEEN QUOTED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT REPUBLICANS KIND OF RUN AWAY FROM THE ABORTION ISSUE.

HAS IT CHANGED IN THE LAST THREE YEARS?

>> Marjorie: I THINK YES.

I THINK ABSOLUTELY YES.

I THINK 2014 WAS THE YING OF THAT, YES.

THOSE SENATE ELECTIONS, THAT YEAR IN 2014 WERE SOME OF THE BEST THAT THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT WAS EVER EMBEDDED ITSELF IN, BE A PART OF AND THEN SEE THE CONSEQUENCE ONCE IT GOT TO THE SENATE.

AND I THINK THAT THE PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT HAS TAKEN ITSELF VERY SERIOUSLY.

THE DAIRY SUPPORT MOVEMENT TAKES IT'S VERY AREAS.

THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY TAKES ITSELF VERY SERIOUSLY THEY PUT A LOT OF MONEY, A LOT OF MUSCLE, A LOT OF ACTION INTO ELECTIONS AND THEN THEY EXPECT RESULTS LATER, AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE REASON I BEGAN WITH THIS GROUP OF WOMEN, THIS ORGANIZATION WAS TO AT LEAST BRING TO PARITY ALL OF THOSE ISSUES THAT RECEIVED ALL OF THAT FUNDING AND ALL OF THAT FUNDING AND ALL OF THAT MACHINE, POLITICAL MACHINE ACTION.

>> Bonnie: DONALD TRUMP.

PRO-LIFE PRESIDENT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIM?

>> Marjorie: I WILL TELL YOU THIS.

HE HAS DELIVERED MORE 9 THINK PRESIDENT SO FAR THAT HE WAS IN -- HE HAS DELIVERED MORE THAN I THINK ANY OF THE PRIMARY CANDIDATES WOULD HAVE.

WHILE I'M SURPRISED, WE VERY MUCH BECAME A PART OF SEALING IN THOSE COMMITMENTS.

HE'S THE FIRST PRESIDENT TO ACTUALLY MAKE CONCRETE COMMITMENTS ON THIS AND THEN TO IMMEDIATELY BEGIN TO FOLLOW THROUGH.

HAVING SAID THAT, I WAS -- HE WAS FAR AND AWAY MY LAST CHOICE, BUT WE DID WHAT WE ALWAYS DO IN GOOD POLITICS, AND GOOD POLITICAL DISCIPLINES REQUIRES THAT YOU GET EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE SOLIDLY COMMITTED, INCLUDING HIM, AND THEN WHEN TIME COMES FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION AND YOU HAVE TWO CANDIDATES, YOU MUST CHOOSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN IT.

STOW DISCIPLINE PART OF THAT MEANS DID THOSE COMMITMENTS, AND WE HAVE A GREAT LETTER WHICH WAS A CENTRAL ORIGINAL DOCUMENT YOU HAVE OF OUR WHOLE CAMPAIGN, A LETTER OF COMMITMENT THAT HE WAS A STIPULATION FOR ME BEING HIS PRO-LIFE CHAIR FOR THE BATTLEGROUND STATES, AND IT GAVE US EVERYTHING WE NEEDED.

SO-SO FAR, SO GOOD.

HIS FIRST 100 DAYS REPORT THAT WE WROTE FOR THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT WAS FANTASTIC GORGEOUS AND IT DOESN'T BOTHER YOU SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE SAID ABOUT WOMEN?

>> Marjorie: YOU ABOUT IT BOTHERS ME.

YES, IT DOES.

>> Bonnie: HOW DO YOU WRAP YOUR ARMS AROUND EMBRACING HIM GIVEN WHAT HE SAID ABOUT GRABBING WOMEN'S GENITALS AND -- >> Marjorie: THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT.

I HAVE DAUGHTERS.

EVEN IF I DIDN'T HAVE DAUGHTERS, I LOVE WOMEN.

I LOVE MYSELF ENOUGH TO HAVE THE SELF-RESPECT TO HATE THAT.

BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO TWO PEOPLE RUNNING, ARGUABLY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CHARACTER ISSUES ON BOTH SIDES, THERE ARE POLICY DECISIONS THAT HAVE I AM IMMENSE IMPACT FOR THE LIVES OF AMERICANS AND CERTAINLY UNBORN AMERICANS, AND SO IT HAD TO BE A DECISION ABOUT WHO WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DELIVER ON THAT.

WE WERE CERTAIN WHAT SHE BELIEVED.

SHE WAS VERY, VERY CLEAR WHAT SHE THOUGHT.

AND HE COMMITTED THE OPPOSITE AND SO IT WAS VERY CLEAR IN THE END THAT WE HAD A POLICY CHOICE TO MAKE, AND THAT'S THE BASIS OF MAKING THAT DECISION.

AND SO FAR I CAN SAY THAT IT WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE.

>> Bonnie: DO YOU CALL YOURSELF A FEMINIST?

>> Marjorie: I USED TO, BUT I DON'T AS MUCH ANYMORE BECAUSE I -- WHILE I EMBRACE THE CORE PRINCIPLES OF FEMINISM, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO KNOW THESE DAYS WHAT IS' FEMINIST AND WHAT IS -- WHAT IS -- WHAT BRAND OF FEMINISM WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE MORE INTERESTING THINGS THAT WE TALK ABOUT IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

WHEN THERE WAS A SPLIT IN FEMINISM A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO BETWEEN THE -- BETWEEN THE FEMINISTS WHO WERE PRO ABORTION AND PRO PORN,, THAT LEFT A LOT OF US BEHIND.

AND I REALLY THOUGHT WE COULD FIX IT, I THOUGHT WE WOULD KIND OF BRING IT BACK TOGETHER.

ONE OF THE REASONS THAT SUSAN B. ANTHONY WAS THE NAME OF THIS ORGANIZATION.

BUT I JUST DECIDED TO, YOU KNOW, LEAVE THE LABELS TO OTHER PEOPLE AND JUST TRY TO HAVE WOMEN BE WHO THEY ARE CREATED TO BE AND LEAVE IT AT THAT.

>> Bonnie: THERE ARE WOMEN WHO CALLS THEMSELF PRO-LIFE FEMINISTS, RIGHT.

DO YOU ENDORSE THEM?

DO YOU ENDORSE WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO?

>> Marjorie: VERY MUCH.

>> Bonnie: THE BIG WOMEN'S MARCH IN WASHINGTON THE DAY AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS INAUGURATED, THERE WERE SOME A SPRINKLING OF WOMEN THERE CARRYING PRO-LIFE FEMINIST SIGNS.

>> Marjorie: I AM THAT PRO-LIFE.

I AM THAT FEMINIST.

I JUST DON'T USE THE LABEL.

SIMONS SOMETIMES IT'S MORE CONFUSING TO PEOPLE THAN CLARIFYING.

BUT, YES, I VERY MUCH ALIGN.

IN FACT, THE FOUNDING OF THE SUSAN B. ANTHONY LIST WAS VERY MUCH WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF FEMINISTS FOR LIFE, AND RACHEL MCNAIR WHO WROTE EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THE EARLY FEMINISTS WHO WERE PRO-LIFE, SHE WAS A QUAKER, RACH OF RACHEL AND THEN HEAVENLY AND OTHERS WHO WERE OUT THERE THAT IT WAS A LOT OF WOMEN WITH A LOT OF DIVERGENT VIEWS ON RELL JOINT AND POLITICS BUT WERE UNITED ON THIS PARTICULAR BELIEF AND THAT IT WAS THE PRO-WOMAN THINGS TO DO.

>> Bonnie: LAW MAKING AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING WEEK THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT CLEARLY HAS IT OVER -- AS YOU SAID, THE PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT IS IN DEFENSIVE MODE, AND THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT IS MOVING FORWARD TOWARD ITS GOAL OF BANNING ALL ABORTIONS.

AND ONE THING THAT I ALWAYS THOUGHT REALLY HELPED TURN THAT BATTLESHIP AROUND WAS THE SONOGRAMS.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> Marjorie:; YEAH, I THINK THE THEORETICAL ARGUMENT LIKE I WAS DESCRIBING IN PHILOSOPHY AND ALL THAT, WHAT IS A HUMAN BEING, WHAT IS THE NATURE OF HUMANITY, THOSE ARE COMPELLING ARGUMENTS AND COMPELLING CONVERSATIONS, BUT THERE IS NOTHING MORE RIVETING THAN SEEING A BABY ON A SONOGRAM.

IT MAKES THE PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT STUTTER TO SEE IT.

AND THEY WERE VERY -- AND THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED, AS THEY SHOULD BE, AND I WOULD HAVE BEEN A LONG TIME AGO, THAT THE REASON WE'RE ON OFFENSE AND THEY'RE ON DEFENSE IS BECAUSE THE HUMANIZATION OF THAT ENTITY HAS REALLY COME AROUND.

IT IS NOT JUST THE HUMANIZATION.

PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AND SEE THAT THAT'S HUMAN.

AND ANYBODY THAT WANTS THEIR PREGNANCY WANTS THEIR -- THE CHILD THAT IS GROWING WILL LOOK AT WEB MD EVERY MONTH AND FIND ALL OF KIND OF INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING, YOU SHOULD BE SINGING TO YOUR CHILD AT FOUR AND A HALF MONTHS, THEY KNOW YOUR VOICE.

YOU SHOULD BE -- THAT'S WHEN THEY ARE EYEBROWS START TO COME IN AND YOU CAN SEE IT.

SO, YOU KNOW, VISUALS AREN'T EVERYTHING BUT THEY'RE CERTAINLY A LOT AND THEY'RE CERTAINLY A LOT IN THIS DAY AND AGE.

AND THAT HAS REALLY -- IF WE HAD DONE NOTHING, IF NOTHING HAD BEEN DONE AND MEDICAL SCIENCE HAD JUST KEPT THAT PACE, WE WOULD BE -- WE WOULD STILL BE AT A PLACE OF GOING ON OFFENSE RIGHT NOW.

>> >> Bonnie: AND THAT IS CLEARLY A PLACE WHERE TECHNOLOGY WAS ON YOUR SIDE.

>> Marjorie: INDEED.

INDEED, IT WAS AND IS.

>> Bonnie: HOWEVER, TECHNOLOGY HAS ALSO TURNED AGAINST YOU MORE RECENTLY WITH ABORT A PATIENTIENTS WITH THE INVENTION ABORT A PATIENTS WHICH ALLOW WOMEN IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR HOMES TO TERMINATE PREGNANCIES WITH PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS, AND NOW SO MANY ABORTIONS ARE NOT TAKING PLACE IN CLINICS BUT THEY'RE TAKING PLACE WITH MEDICATIONS THAT WOMEN CAN BUY IN SOME CASES OVER THE COUNTER.

IS THAT -- TELL ME ABOUT HOW THAT'S AFFECTED YOUR MOVEMENT.

>> Marjorie: IT IS, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE SADDEST TURN OF EVENT FOR WOMEN, ALONE IN THEIR APARTMENT OR WHEREVER THEY ARE, IN A BATHROOM, GOING THROUGH ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU DO THAT EVEN PRO-CHOICE PEOPLE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS OFTEN EMOTIONALLY RIVETING TIME.

WHETHER THEY SAW A SONOGRAM OR NOT, THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT A SELF-APPENDECTOMY.

IT'S AN ABORTION.

AND IT INVOLVES PROBABLY, MAYBE ANOTHER PERSON, YOU KNOW.

YOU'RE ALL ALONE.

YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT.

EMOTIONALLY.

YOU ALSO HAVE NO SUPPORT MEDICALLY IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG.

A TELEPHONE IS NOT A GOOD SUBSTITUTE FOR AN ATTENDING PHYSICIAN.

SO I THINK IT'S ALSO NOT -- I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT RESPONSIBLE MEDICALLY AND IT'S NOT COMPASSIONATE ON AN EMPATHY BASIS.

YOU ASK WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR OUR MOVEMENT.

IT MEANS THAT OUR MOVEMENT NEEDS TO BE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT STOPPING ABORTION AT CERTAIN STAGES.

>> EVEN TWO WEEKS, FOUR WEEKS INTO A PREGNANCY?

>> AT LEAST WHERE WE ARE NOW, STARTING TO BE -- THE ONLY -- IN TERMS OF ITS EFFECT ON OUR ABILITY TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS, IT'S DEVASTATING BECAUSE YOU COULD CLOSE DOWN EVERY -- YOU COULD CLOSE DOWN EVERY PLANNED PARENTHOOD, YOU CAN DO ALL THIS, AND THEN THE DEMAND WILL JUST SHIFT TO A DIFFERENT PLACE, A DIFFERENT INSTITUTION, YOUR OWN HOME, SOMEWHERE ELSE.

SO THE HELP THAT WOMEN NEED AND THE LAWS THAT ARE NEEDED TO PROTECT UNBORN CHILDREN NEED TO BE GETTING AT LEAST PARITY WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE ONE OF SEVEN NATIONS THAT FAIL TO OUTLAW ABORTION PART OF FIVE MONTHS.

AND OUR PARTNERS IN THIS ARE VIETNAM, NORTH KOREA, CHINA, CANADA.

THAT'S NOT GREAT -- THAT'S NOT GREAT COMPANY.

WE'VE GOT SOME WORK TO DO.

SO WHEN I SAY -- WHEN YOU REMIND ME OF THAT, I THINK OF IT AS A GREAT, GREAT -- IT'S A GREAT SADNESS, AND I THINK THAT -- THIS THERE WILL BE A BACKLASH AMONG WOMEN OVER TIME BUT NOT RIGHT NOW.

>> ABOUT JUSTICE GORSUCH ON THE COURT, DO YOU SEE THE SUPREME COURT WHEN THE RIGHT CASE COMES ALONG OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE?

>> ROWE HAS BEEN SORT OF FALLING APART AT THE CORE FOR A LONG TIME ALREADY, AND IT IS NOT -- BECAUSE, THINK OF IT, THE SYSTEM IS NOT EVEN.

THE LANGUAGE OF THE COURT ANY MORE, OF THE SUPREME COURT OR ANY COURT.

IT'S VIABILITY.

AND SO ROE, SO ROE HAS BEEN MORPHED INTO ROE PLUS VIABILITY.

PLUS VIABILITY.

BUT EVEN VIABILITY CHANGES ABOUT EVERY DECADE ABOUT A WEEK.

SO THAT'S A SHIFTING STANDARD THAT IT'S HARD TO ARGUE THAT THAT'S A LEGAL STANDARD, SOMETHING THAT IF SHIFTS ALL ALONG.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT VIABILITY WITH MEDICAL INTERVENTION.

>> CORRECT, RIGHT.

SO IT COULD LIVE EVEN WITH MEDICAL INTERVENTION.

>> DO YOU THINK WE'LL GET TO THE POINT WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE, MEDICAL INTERVENTION COULD SAVE, YOU KNOW, A ZYGOTE?

>> DON'T EVER SAY NEVER BECAUSE THE NEXT DAY YOU FIND OUT SOMETHING ELSE.

SOMEONE TWEETS OUT SOME INCREDIBLE THING.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, MARJORIE.

THIS HAS BEEN EXTREMELY ENLIGHTING.

AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "TO THE CONTRARY."

PLEASE VISIT ME ON TWITTER AND OUR WEBSITE, CBS.ORG/TO THE CONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU THINK OR AGREE "TO THE CONTRARY," SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.