♪ opening music ♪ ♪ <Thelisha Eaddy> Welcome to Palmetto Perspectives and this important discussion on school safety.

I'm Thelisha Eaddy.

Following a string of weapons found on school property, alleged assaults on campuses and threats stemming from social media, how do we deal with violence in our schools and what can parents, teachers, students, and the community do to help keep our learning environments safe?

It's a question that's been on the minds of many people, maybe yours.

And tonight, we are inviting you both our listeners and our viewers to join us in this conversation.

You can do that by commenting on our Facebook page at South Carolina ETV, Desiree' Cheeks is in studio with us today and she will be taking your comments live on air.

So remember again, your thoughts, your expertise and your questions are all welcomed and wanted.

And our Facebook page again is South Carolina ETV.

And joining us here in studio are Sheriff Leon Lott.

He is a sheriff of Richland County.

Alan Walters is the Executive Director of Safety and Risk Management for the Georgetown County School District and chair of the State Board of Education.

Vivian Anderson is founder of the Every Black Girl program.

And rounding out our panel tonight is Patrick Martin.

Patrick is a Charleston County public school teacher and founder of the Safe Schools project.

Thank you all for joining us this evening.

We really appreciate your time and your expertise on such an important subject.

So of course, South Carolina is not alone when it comes to incidences of school violence.

But recently, we've seen what's been characterized as an uptick in these cases from the lens of your work and where you serve in our communities, what are you seeing and what are you hearing?

We'll start with Sheriff Lott, <Sheriff Lott> We're really not seeing an increase, but we've seen an increase in the media attention.

It's getting more publicity now than it ever has been.

The numbers are basically the same that we've always had.

But now people pay more attention to it, because of tragedies we've had nationwide.

So it seems that the media is jumped on it more than what they have in the past.

<Alan Walters> Certainly, it is hard to compare, because we haven't had school years that had been true school years for two years now.

But we've seen some I wouldn't call it an increase.

We've seen perhaps behavioral misconduct more so that people have been out of school so long, they've lost their socialization, if you will.

And so that leads to a lot of behavior issues and discipline issues.

<Thelisha> Okay.

<Vivian Anderson> Yeah...I would just take a little different approach where it's like, we expect this, if we look at our world, our schools are a microcosm of our world.

So we should have already been prepared, right?

We see what happened on you know, in January of last year, at the capsule, kids are repeating what they see the world doing.

So we're just, if we don't start shifting the outer world, we're going to keep seeing the same stuff in our school, even if people don't know it, like, Sheriff Lott said, media is bringing attention, But it's bringing attention to things that's already been there.

And the numbers show it all the time.

<Thelisha> Patrick.

<Patrick Martin> I would agree that a lot of the things we see are things that have been present for a long time, but it's the exposure through social media and through the media in general, certainly has a direct impact on students, whether they're directly involved in any sort of violence or not.

So that's always something to contend with, and be aware of, <Thelisha> Okay.

You know, on this program, we've had conversations about race relations voting opioid epidemic.

And when we start to peel back the layers on these topics, to get to the source and solutions.

A common denominator something that we see in each of these conversations is the role that COVID played.

And Alan, you alluded to it just a little bit.

But is the pandemic a contributing factor to what we're seeing?

>> I think it is, and certainly we've seen an increase in the need for mental health services, for instance.

And so I know a lot of our school districts throughout the state and the State Department, as well are using some of that federal relief money to increase the number of counselors in schools.

So, the goal ultimately is behavior modification as well as education, and so by getting that in there some of these issues that they brought back to school with them, if we can address those, then we can get more focus back on their primary purpose for being there.

<Thelisha> Anyone else?

<Sheriff Lott> Yeah, I think we're fooling ourselves if we don't think the pandemic impacted our kids.

It still is.

I mean, it's not over yet.

And there's still fear and as Alan said, yeah, it's mental health issues that's come about because of the pandemic, and we're not addressing those.

We just expected kids to come back to school.

Like they, you know, never missed a day that they haven't been having to deal with the pandemic, and it has.

It's impacted all of them.

And we're seeing that in the classrooms.

We're seeing it outside the classrooms too.

<Thelisha> You know, before the pandemic, a lot of focus has been placed on the need for mental health issues.

And, Alan , I want to come Patrick I want to come to you, because early on, the Safe Schools Project was advocating for a licensed psychologist in every school in the state.

Kind of take us back to that time.

What was that... journey like for you to educate people and convince people that this was a needed resource for the problem?

>> I thought people were very receptive.

I think, bringing my experience firsthand in the front of the classroom every day and sharing those stories with people, it's so hard to convey exactly what goes on in a student's life at school.

But as it's been said, it is a microcosm of life.

So there's very real problems that our young people deal with every day.

And so when there's a heightened sense of anxiety created by whatever situation, whether it be violence, whether it be global, or whether it be the pandemic, it certainly is something where the need for the community to come around the students and help that engagement is so key, And I found people were very receptive, and we started advocating at the district level, state level and at the national level.

People wanted to help but it's complex, and I think that's where we are always running into a problem.

How do we address it?

<Thelisha> What are some of the roadblocks that you all see in that complexity, and getting these resources where we need them?

<Vivian> Well, one of the roadblocks I face as a community, so every black girl is an organization, not just a program and our work is national, and looking at like, what is safety versus security of a school.

...so oftentimes, some of the roadblocks for the organization is like, and especially because of the pandemic and COVID.

Right?

Who gets to be allowed in to support the school, right?

How do we pick, you know, picking and choosing who gets to be allowed in so their community organizations looking to be in schools to support, especially when it comes to mental health, right.

And so oftentimes, schools may not have the resources, but we have licensed social workers on our team.

So that'd be somebody that can come into the school.

But those kinds of roadblocks are the things that are faced when we're really looking at the holistic approach to supporting our young people and teachers, because that's a whole other factor into it.

How do we support teachers to support students, <Sheriff Lott> ...I'll give you an example.

I'm a grandparent, and my grandson's birthday was two days ago.

We were over there celebrating and I said, when we're going to have grandparents day at school, and they said, we don't do that anymore.

So we're not allowing because of the pandemic, community members, grandparents to come into the schools.

And I think the kids are missing that.

And, you know, so we just don't have the community environment because of the pandemic that we had prior to it.

<Thelisha> We have to learn to live with our current situation, the pandemic, but how do we do that?

Those what seemed to be little but very important things to our students that are now gone.

How do we shift or pivot.

So that those resources are still there for those kids and still be safe and practice safety.

<Alan> We're redoing the way that we do school now, and so if you look back, for instance, one of the first needs that came out of the accelerated task force was having a nurse in every school.

Now, I've long been an advocate for an SRO in every school, The sheriff has.

The governor has, but at that point in time, we have more SROs in schools, and we had nurses.

And so the legislature stepped up and funded that and got that going.

And that's something that will always be there from now on.

And we've seen how important that is.

Schools do so much more than educate, we're responsible for physical health, for mental health for nutrition.

It's a whole host of services.

All of those have to be addressed so we can get to the point of delivering education.

<Vivian> Right, and I just wanted clarity, because as of today, there's still not a nurse in every school.

There are more SROs in schools than there are nurses statewide.

<Alan> I don't have current numbers on that.

I can't say that's right or wrong?

>> No, no.

>> I know the fund funding is there.

>> Right?

And certainly, it's a struggle to find nurses who want to work in schools just like right now, with the SRO grant money that's out there, a lot of agencies have received the grants, but they're having to go out now and try to find the right person to be an SRO.

Because as we know, it takes a special person to do that, because it's a highly specialized area of law enforcement.

And so even if you take an experience officer move them to that SRO slot, then you've got to find somebody to take that person's place in regular duties.

So it's a tight labor market for everybody, but especially these specialized positions that we're talking about here, mental health counselors, nurses, and SROs.

It's very challenging right now.

<Thelisha> You know, when our students walk through the doors of their schools, they're walking through with unfortunately, a lot of issues that adults have that have to deal with abuse, neglect, hunger, trauma, and they step inside that classroom, they may not be equipped to handle it on their own, kind of give us a snapshot of what is currently available in South Carolina schools, when a pupil enters in for instruction time, but they're dealing with life issues, and that those issues manifest itself.

<Alan> Well, we've got a number of things, probably one you're probably most referring to, we've always had what used to be called guidance counselors.

Now they're called school counselors.

But we have what's called RBHS counselors, and they deal with the behavioral aspects of it.

And so then we can look at it and see what those needs are.

And a lot of times it could be including referrals to outside agencies, because we've got them for seven or eight hours a day, but the problems are 24 hours a day.

So, by engaging other outside community services, some of the programs that they're mentioning, there needs to be a wrap-around that, you know, a lot of the issues came because they were away from school, they need to be addressed when they're away from school, But certainly we provide as much as we can in the school environment so we can maximize their ability to learn.

<Vivian> I just have to interrupt.

My spirit won't let me sit because we were talking a lot about behavior.

And behavior is like we're not talking about the root.

What's creating the behavior?

And oftentimes, it does happen in school.

So, it's not just stuff that they're at home.

It's this is happening at home, because when we look at the mass shooters, their home life would be, you know, wouldn't be seen as like, these kids are coming with this and they're coming.

Those kids wouldn't have been seeing that way, right?

And so there's a label that we're placing on children saying, What is this educational system doing?

What happened?

Where do we need to go?

Where we are engaging children, we do see what's happening with them, and not just like, oh, they have behavior, they have behavior, and behavior, mental health.

At the end, you can talk more about it.

But I think we have to start breaking it apart.

Because there are kids with mental illness, but what are we doing to make sure our kids stay mentally well while they're in environments that can create mental illness, <Thelisha> If the roadblocks did not exist?

And funding was not an issue?

Or if I was a genie in the bottle?

And you could what would you paint?

Or what would be a, A table of resources that would address the issues that you see?

>> Yeah, one, because of the world that we live in now, and really talking about how do we use professionals who have been trained and not trained as like, I went to a training who went to school, who this is their professional, this is what they've been called to do, creating a financial resources, So they can be in the schools doing the work or wrap-arounds, the school social workers, and not just one.

We need - making that, because it would be the same thing if I'm one social worker taking care of 200.

So enough resources to make sure we actually have mental health support, emotional, social support, the behavioral, because not to say that behavior does not happen, but also what are the things that the young people, because oftentimes, you say, what would we paint?

I ask them, "What would they paint?".

and the caring adults and one, if the money wasn't an issue, that means we will be paying teachers at a different level.

We will be having money.

So if I'm a nurse, and I don't want to be in a school, it's not that - because there are pediatric nurses everywhere.

It's probably the financial part, the money are we paying people what they deserve, and what they can have livelihood with, right?

And so if I was to paint a picture, SROs would not be in the school.

There's a way that the relationship with law enforcement and school can take place, but this role that SROs have played, especially when we talk about the trauma that we've seen, even watching.

We are here that after Columbine, how kids are still triggered about ...guns are still no guns, and that triggers me.

So the trauma that's created by so many things.

And it's not to say that there's not a relationship but the role that SROs have been playing.

I think it's overstepping.

And it takes away from the folks that actually need to be there doing that day to day because the role that the SRO has, it's not, ...they're not when they come in, they came off that force looking at criminals and victims.

and this is what some officers have told me recently, right?

Criminals and victims.

So if I'm always looking at criminals, and victims, I'm never going to see a child, I'm going to see their behavior, not as adolescent misbehaving, I'm going to see it as criminal activity, and that crosses to institutions that's crossing the line.

So, it would look like that for me.

<Thelisha> All right, we're going to turn to Desiree', because we have a comment on social media.

>> Yes, we've got a question on the environment safety.

What is the local school district?

What is the local school district doing to create a safe environment?

Do they cultivate a safe environment and promote safety awareness and preparedness?

<Sheriff Lott> I think all school districts do, I think they're required now to have a safety plan.

And you know, the kids have to be part of that safety plan.

But the best tool that we have to keep a school safe is the kids, their self.

If we empower these kids to police the school, that's how we find out if somebody's got a gun at school.

It's not because we're, you know, the best investigator in the world.

It's because a child has told on them.

You look how many kids go to school every single day, make great decisions.

And when they see someone that's got a gun or drug in school, they don't want it there.

So by having a school resource officer that they feel comfortable with, they go to that school resource officer and tell them, because they don't want it in the school.

So we have to look at our kids as being the answer to our safety problems.

<Thelisha> Okay, anyone?

<Alan> And so I would also add to that, too, in addition to having to have safety plans, climate surveys, anti-bullying programs, a lot of districts, including mine use the Olweus anti bullying program, which is a classroom level based program.

But you know, we have an anonymous reporting app.

They will not use it unless they have trust and respect for the people that are on the receiving end of that information.

...I'll tell you a quick story.

This morning, we filmed a story for a local TV station, and we have one of our SROs talking about the program in his school.

He's not Officer Owens.

He's Mr. Ryan.

He's a person.

And when he's out in the community, and he lives in the community where he works.

He's Mr. Ryan.

And so they see beyond the uniform, and that's what our SROs are doing is that they're not there to be a badge and a gun.

They're there to be a member of that community.

And they care for children.

And they're there because their hearts in the right place, but they also have the skills and abilities that if heaven forbid, something happens, they're there to address it.

And so I think that's a significant change we've seen in the last few years in what SROs do in schools.

In fact, in 2017, through the State Department.

We rewrote the regulation about how SROs are used in our schools in South Carolina.

We also re-wrote the discipline policy, that's used in schools in South Carolina, so that some of these factors can be taken into consideration when making decisions.

But the key point that I want to say about that is SROs are not in schools to be disciplinarians.

So, they're not there to deal with behavioral issues, <Sheriff Lott> Or classroom management.

That came about in 2015, when we had a terrible incident, one of our high schools.

We found out that our SROs were being used for discipline and classroom management.

That's not what we're there for.

And so we have a clear understanding now between what SROs responsibility is and what the school's responsibility, it took something bad to happen for us to get back on track, because...it get convoluted over a period of time, and so we're back on track now.

and Alan was part of the group that looked at SROs, and what they're supposed to be doing, and what their requirements are, and we've changed a lot.

<Thelisha> Patrick.

<Patrick> Two things I want to echo is one is a level of trust and trust is built by familiarity.

And trust is also built by clear and consistent communication, and it's someone who's in the classroom, knowing that there are a lot of working parts that go into an everyday school day.

You mentioned that earlier when you were talking about wrap-around services from food to mental health, and then of course education, right?

So we need people in the school who are consistently there year after year, retaining our teachers who know and they know the kids and they want to work with kids.

And they want to be invested in that story that helps define their behavior as opposed to seeing a behavior they say, Oh, that's so and so and I know them personally and then it - but it's complex.

It's not an easy thing to do to build trust, but we can I think work to improve communication, and how...what role - continued communication with parents and students that we value their input, and we implement their suggestions, as well.

<Vivian> Right, because undercurrent, if you think - if you listen to what when I listen to what you said, and it's like, because if the kids are policing each other, so kids holding each other accountable is what I'm going to say instead of policing, kids holding each other accountable.

When you see something, say something, right.

It's like the person on the other.

So they going to go to the SRO that they trust.

So it's like, okay, so there's no other person in that school.

So that one SRO is going to take off, this is the one.

so it's not about - and let me be very clear.

It's not about individuals.

It become systems, and how from systems of policing, how who gets to be policed?

And we'd know that looking at the numbers, Black and brown children, and yes, we get to have this conversation.

we get to talk about what happens when SROs are in schools, right?

What is safety and security?

What is safe?

What is security?

Right?

And I keep going back to that, because safety when we did we did surveys, We consistently do it.

There are not too many, There - the top three things, caring adults.

Friends, you know, SROs aren't on that list.

Teachers who listen, one of the kids who's on a virtual home school right now, "I just wish when we were doing all the virtual work, that they just remember our names" Right.

And so there's some stuff ...and that's why I said - because even with educators, they need support.

So if we have educators where kids, and let me be very clear, I talk too.

So, I've been in front of the classroom, right.

I've never had to call a SRO in.

But there was different levels of support that was needed.

There were...other, there were social workers and guidance counselors that were like not having 200 kids they had to hold.

So I think one of the things is, you know, we hear you know, I just put it all out there.

We talked about defund the police, but it's really like a reallocation of funds where we're actually looking at like, how do we hold the holistic child first and foremost, and like you said, kids, are whole kids, and that will create a safe environment as well.

Safe.

<Thelisha> I want to come back to the conversation of SRO, but we have another comment on social media.

<Desiree> We do, on the topic of SRO, building the relationship between SROs and students is so important.

We also have to be careful when it comes to students speaking up, because they can become a target too and holding each other accountable.

So also, how do we, what do we do about the children who are also fearful of law enforcement.

So you have the student becoming a target force actually speaking up, and then children who may be scared to come forward?

Because of what they may have been seeing in the media, with social - with law enforcement?

How do we tackle those?

<Alan> I'd like to start with that.

By saying that, the first thing is, is we've got to start at a much younger age, establishing the fact that law enforcement is not an adversarial relationship between our young people, and I can tell you, because I was a law enforcement officer, and I'd go to Walmart or the grocery store, and the kid would be acting out or having a tantrum.

And the parent would say, You better behave, you see that man right there, because I had a uniform on and they didn't consider the fact that I was a parent, and my kids were in the store as well, and so that's been put in their mind from an incredibly young age, that this is an adversarial relationship.

You don't want to talk to them, cooperate with them.

They're the ones that are going to call to come get you.

So, that's the point of getting our SROs involved in schools in more than just a law enforcement capacity to establish relationships.

When I've talked about that before, that was not to say that our school administrators, our teachers, our counselors, we have teams of people in schools that work with students, as well.

But it needs to be a team effort, and that's where, especially with the administration is using all the tools in their toolbox to provide those services and make sure that particular students need what they need for their individual needs.

<Thelisha> Earlier, Vivian, you mentioned, a list of what children say that they needed and wanted and at the top was a trusted adult, and then later you said, you know, the SRO falls all the way down at the bottom of the list.

Can an SRO be the trusted adult?

Is it?

Is it the uniform that's triggering, do you believe for children?

<Vivian> So, we go deeper into that question.

When they look at the adults, they're looking at the like the teachers, the counselors, the social workers, even lunch aids.

They're looking at who are the people in our school?

Because, and we asked because like I said, I'm always like, what's the difference between safety and security?

And when they say When it comes to like, "Oh, the SRO keeps the building safe."

Not necessarily.

We're supposed to be a relationship, but also, I think one of the things that I've heard, spoken again, on national levels and everywhere, once again, we hold kids accountable for what adults should be working to do.

and I always found it interesting that they say, when we start young, right, and we can, is to the SROs, help build the relationship between community.

No, well, no that's our role to do.

We shouldn't like if this if we can have children see SROs as police officers, because they're police, police in a different way in the school then... it'll be different in the community.

...it's like, well, why are we holding kids accountable, to be holding that relationship so high, and we have to be honest about what happens in the community.

So...the police that they see in schools, that's not the first thing because oftentimes the - once again, the microcosm of the world, how the relationship with policing in the world has looked, and I taught, you know, I'm speaking for black and brown children, and I'm not speaking for them.

I'm saying, This has been the area of my work, even though I work with all children.

These are the times when we see policing happen, these are the kids that are most impacted.

Not that every child is not harmed, but these are the kids most impacted.

<Sheriff Lott> That's not an SRO.

That's just a police officer in the school.

And there's a huge difference between a police officer in the school and the SRO.

That's why they call a school resource officer.

So, if they do bring so many resources.

They're not there just to keep the school safe from intruders, they're there to build a relationship with the kids, and be someone that they trust.

That's what a real school resource officers do.

I don't know what they do in New York, I don't know what they're do in L.A.

I know what they do in Richland County, and I know that they're expected - 87 school resources, I got.

I expect them to develop relationship with the kids.

And they do.

I see it when I go to the schools and speak at DARE graduations or just drop in and see them.

We want to build a different relationship with them.

And we've been able to accomplish that over years.

<Thelisha> I'm glad you mentioned that.

I was going to say earlier, you mentioned that the role of the SRO was changed.

What is - can you define for us the role of our school resource officers today?

<Sheriff Lott> Not to be a disciplinarian, and not to be involved in classroom management.

They're there to build relationships with the kids, someone that they trust that they can come through with any kind of problems, and we see that.

They'll come to an SRO that they trust and tell them about things that are happening at home, their personal issues they have and the bully, social media is good, but it's also can be very dangerous.

...so we see a lot of bullying being done on social media.

So the school resource officer gets involved in that, to help these children not be bullied over social media.

They're there to do so many things, and so many different things.

but classroom management, and discipline is not part of what they're there to do.

<Alan> What you will find in that definition we wrote into the new law is you'll see words like mentor, role model, educator, doing crime prevention, education classes, It's a lot more comprehensive.

It's not just somebody standing up puffing out their chest, I've got a badge and the gun on, they're there for a specific purpose.

And it is, as we've said, a very specialized area of law enforcement.

<Patrick> I think at the end of the day, it's a numbers game.

When you think about the ratio between SROs and students, and I, this conversation, you know, when I think about the listening, ear on campus, it's about...how many years are there on the campus, and you know, there's only going to be 70 SROs.

So I feel like if we're talking about the best way to keep our schools safe, and make students feel safe, which I think is almost as important is to have more mental health counselors, or even on a lesser degree, have a resource for students to talk when I talk to my students, the number one thing they say is, who do I talk to, when I can't talk to somebody at home?

...I don't know the answer to that question because if they talk to their school counselor, they have an obligation to communicate certain things back home, or to an administrator.

And so I think the students are really yearning for a safe place and a safe space to talk.

...I'm open to any suggestions because I'd love to tell my students here's a place you can go with your problems when you have a sense of confidentiality, or even just privacy.

>> I'm sorry, go ahead.

<Vivian> That goes to that community school bottle like when you allow community to come in and support even if it's just the referral out because sometimes even in school, I'm afraid to say it like you said and all these organizations we are mandated to report but it's a way because we have trained professionals who actually know like, Oh, do we report this and how to what's the you know, what are those lines and to make kids feel safe to even get to the point of talking and also creating safe after school programs because we know we're also looking at how do we do this during the pandemic?

Like because we're still in a pandemic?

How do we keep our kids safe from not just in school, but those after school hours?

So I think the community school motto, so when you say there should never be a time you say, I don't know where to send, because we should be allowing more resources to come through.

<Thelisha> All right, Desiree'?

<Desiree> Yes.

So, what is needed to support teachers in the cultivation of safe schooling environments, <Alan> Training, and we spend a lot of time and effort in training for that.

They need to be able to recognize the signs of crisis, whether it's a mental health issue, whether it is a dangerous issue where there's something that could escalate into something tragic.

They need to understand what that looks like.

And so by being able to engage before it rises to that level, that's a way we can do a lot of preventive work.

It also helps keep the student from getting into disciplinary or worse issues is that they recognize this, can make the referral to the school counselor or to the RBHS counselor or to the outside services that we can head these things off.

So, we're been putting a lot of time and effort into that.

But again, it also comes back to relationships, And so the teachers while we can tell them what some of the signs are to look for, the relationship they have with their students makes them better able to pick up on those signals.

<Vivian> Just real quick, because, that and teachers need the same thing students need.

They need support.

teach...like, one of the things that we want to do is create a resource room for teachers.

Teachers are bringing in the same way we say kids are bringing in stuff adults bring it in too, and if we separate - well, they're adults, and they should know better, they should be able to move differently.

We're still dismissing a human being.

This is still a full human being who loves young people enough to like I'm going to carry a class of 36.

...that means for him or her to carry 36 They are going to need 36 carrying them, And so I do believe they need the same type of supports as our young people do, <Thelisha> Patrick, from your viewpoint of being inside the classroom and also in a advocacy role?

<Patrick> I just think that when we talk about Safe Schools, just to clarify, I see safety as the feeling of a safe space at school, not just prevention of what might be a traumatic event.

So when I think about Safe Schools, I think about educators and counselors and administrators who are trained and have time to be trained, which I think is probably one, the biggest issue, is the time to find that training to learn culturally relevant pedagogy and trauma informed pedagogy.

So, when a situation presents itself that presents itself as perhaps a situation where someone might be uncomfortable, they can interpret it as what it is, which is perhaps maybe something different than how they're accustomed to someone expressing what might be fear comes across as aggression, but do accepting some of these ideas of our differences, and learning to interpret things differently.

I think it can create a safer space.

<Thelisha> We have another question that's social media but first, Patrick, I wanted to bring you in again because South Carolina ETV also produces another program called Carolina Classrooms, and you were a part of that program last year, one of those episodes last year, and you guys talked about how teachers and administrators can create that safe and nurturing space.

One example that really stuck out - There was a teacher, and my mom was a teacher.

She's a retired teacher, but I remember her standing outside the classroom during the exchange of classes, and one of the teachers in that program talked about that.

What are some other - for all the educators listening now?

What are some other techniques that our educators can use to help create that safe and nurturing environment for our students?

<Patrick> You know, one of my favorite things is to send...a positive progress report or celebrate a student's success, who's not necessarily a student who is commanding all of the academic awards you might get at graduation, but perhaps they come in and they really nail an in class essay, and you can celebrate that student.

I found tremendous success with that and then communicating that to home.

So when the emails coming from school are ones that are celebratory, as opposed to always maybe regulatory, where we're dealing with something that might need to be talked about and discussed in a partnership, as well.

So I tried to always engage a parent in a positive way in the first communication, so that if down the road, we need any sort of other conversations.

We have a positive relationship built early on.

...so we like to celebrate students for all sorts of things at school and I think that's one of the best things I think we can do.

>> Desiree <Desiree> Yes, our last question, I believe, or sorry, our next question.

How can we help students redirect their anger issues to ensure them and all peers are physically, mentally and emotionally healthy.

<Thelisha> That's a good question.

<Patrick> Can we get that repeated?

That was a lot.

<everyone laughs> >> Sorry...what... How can we help students redirect their anger issues to ensure them and all their peers are physically, mentally and emotionally healthy?

I know we've talked on support for teachers and support for the students, but where there's these might be coming off as behavioral issues, like you said before, how can we support this other side of them?

<Vivian> Well, being, being able to have the conversation.

One of the things that... and yes, I was living in New York.

But after 9-11, we did so much.

And I know, nationwide, when those young people came back to school, we had so many - we had so much there, So folks can be in the conversation around like, ...what's going on?

Is it just behavior?

What are you seeing?

...when we came back to school and started slowly coming in, after the pandemic, I often thought about 9-11, because I was like, if I was going to do a security, if I was going to do a return to school plan, it would probably have looked like that.

Where it was like, because of the fear and you know, like to make sure they're all healthy, to make sure we're sitting and saying what's going on in a way where they can all come back in together versus you're going to go here, but I probably would have had that, to keep having those conversations, because the more we have the conversations with young people, the more they are open to be like, Here's what's going on with me.

You said fall in line.

Let me go over here, because you hear me and I will say do more listening than talking.

<Patrick> Mmm.

>> Ask the question, then shut up.

<Thelisha> Any other points on how we can help students deal with those feelings?

<Sheriff Lott> Well, I'm not a teacher, but I can just go back to the teachers that I had, the ones that I remember the most, they just didn't teach me Math and English, they were more interested.

So, our teachers have to understand and be trained.

That may be the only person that child can go and talk to is that teacher and not to ignore them.

if they've got an issue at home, if they got some mental issues they need to deal with that teacher needs to understand, you know, I'm the person they're going to look for.

So just don't teach them whatever that Math, English or whatever it is, they're supposed to be doing.

They've got to address everything about that child.

...I've got teachers I remember today, because they were interested in other things that I did besides just what was going on in that classroom.

<Alan> ...we're working in a lot of districts already do this.

Others are implementing it.

There's various programs.

We've talked a little bit about social-emotional learning, there's multi tiered levels of support, that districts are putting out to be able to support teachers to enable them to be able to do what we're talking about here.

So it's recognized and it's being addressed.

But certainly, there's a long way to go.

<Patrick> I think when you break it down, it comes back to numbers and time again.

I mean, if you have a classroom of 30,32 students, and you want to achieve these goals that y'all are mentioning, which I couldn't agree more with, you have to prioritize everything is a matter of prioritization.

And then when it comes to time, it's the same thing.

How do we prioritize our time between teaching the content and the skills and the standards, but then also embrace the whole child, and you can't have one without the other.

So I think when we talk about like the Safe Schools Project has a legislative agenda.

And the number one thing is more ears on campus, more adults more listening adults, for our students to go to and to get our ratio closer to the national standard, and then the other thing is just providing that time where students can breathe and exist in the same environment with these teachers, and have that time, so it's not quite so hectic.

And we have time to get to know the students in a more fruitful and really with more depth.

<Thelisha> You know, the pandemic has shifted our world.

And there's no doubt about that.

As we move back to a new sense of normalcy.

How do you see changes to our school system to our schools that will help address these issues and more?

Do we need longer days, shorter days?

We have lots of hybrid situations.

Those - time is just one area, but how do you see if we had to look forward to how we want schooling in South Carolina to look, What shifts and pivots do you see coming or would you like to see coming?

<Alan> One trend I can tell you about that has been in the news a bit lately in that's a lot of school districts are looking at the makeup of their school calendar.

So rather than having this traditional June, July, most of August off is they're going back and putting breaks throughout the year, week long breaks, you know in the fall and spring and that sort of thing.

And then during those weeks off, they can offer additional programs and ways to help catch up learning with it.

Like I say, several districts have done that and are in the process of doing it.

others are considering it.

It is a political issue.

And so time will tell if that becomes a new norm.

<Sheriff Lott> I'm going to be a little selfish, I'd like to see the hours of school go longer, because we know, when they get out of school, that's when we tend to have problems.

When they're in school, that's a safe zone for kids.

...I know teachers are not going to like it, but more after school programs, you know, school shouldn't end at three o'clock.

You know, somehow we got to keep these kids busy doing something positive.

...so however you frame that, or you define that, I think that school is a safe zone for these kids.

And we know that.

We see that every day in my job.

And so somehow, if we can keep them there doing something very positive longer, then I think we're going to not only educate them on, you know, math, English, etc, but also life skills.

<Patrick> I think teachers will be interested in something like that, I think it's a matter of just compensation and livability.

Yeah, I know, teachers who are all about that, but also already working far beyond their prescribed hours just to maintain.

<Sheriff Lott> Teachers don't get paid enough.

I don't think anybody's going to disagree with that.

Our teachers are so important, and they're so underpaid.

<Patrick> So, just to clarify, I wasn't saying that necessarily that teachers are underpaid?

I'm saying, <Sheriff Lott> - I'm saying that.

Yeah.

Y'all are grossly underpaid >> Alright.

You said it.

But I do think that if you invest financial support into these programs, and they will - you will find attractive and qualified people to fill those roles.

<Vivian> And I hope a young person is going to send in a question because...they're actually impacted.

And so I want to like kind of go half and half with you, where it's just like, the school day is the school day, but I think the after school program very much, so, those times a day are honestly, honestly needed.

But that's where community, once again, the community organizations, because...you're a teacher, you have children, <Patrick> Mmm Hmm.

You want to get home to your children too, right.

So, how do we make it because that's about wellness as well, right, and so I think is the half and a half, because in the after school programs, that's when they can learn math, but they're doing by, putting threes in the hoop, right?

And...that's how, you know, so it can look different.

So, it's the half and half.

<Alan> I was going to kind of pump the brakes a little bit too.

All these are worthy ideas of consideration, but we've got teachers leaving the profession, because they feel like too much is being put on them already, as we look at expanding these services and programs,...we've got to really be careful how much we're asking them to do ...we've all said, you know, they've got their own stress and issues to deal with as well.

So...as you said, it's not about necessarily compensation.

But you know, they need to be able to focus on educating as well, realizing all these other things are part of it, but we're seeing teachers leave right now in just incredible numbers, and so having teachers engaged in the process to develop these programs, is probably one of our key points with it, so that the people who have to do it, are helping be the ones to develop it.

<Thelisha> Desiree'?

<Desiree'> So first, we have a comment that the viewer would like you to expand upon, And then a question coming up after that.

"Please share the importance of adults "securing their firearms, so kids and teens cannot "access guns to be able to bring them to school, "hiding a gun or even locking them in the car "overnight is not securing a firearm."

That's the question... <Alan> Well, absolutely, ...a firearm carries with it responsibility, as a former law enforcement officer who had children in the home, I knew that.

They had to be secured.

And so making sure that those firearms ammunition are secured properly is so important.

And our parents need to realize that.

They need to keep track of where their firearms are.

You know, that was one of the issues with the latest shooting in Michigan.

How that student got the thing in the first place and where it was kept where it was stored responsibility for it.

So, you know, that can't be emphasized enough, how important it is to properly store your firearms and your ammunition.

<Sheriff Lott>...this is the first time I think we've used the word parents so much.

There's a responsibility on parents, it shouldn't be on the teachers.

It shouldn't be on us.

The parents have got to share some of this responsibility too.

Unfortunately, we have too many adults who live in a house with a child that are not a parent, because they don't be involved in their child's life.

They don't know what's in their bookbag.

They don't know what's in their car.

There's no privacy in that house, and that child doesn't pay the bills.

That child doesn't own that phone As a real responsible parent, you need to know who your child's friends are, what they have, where they're going.

You need to do that all the time.

So parents play a big role in keeping these guns out of our kids hands, but if you got a gun, it's called responsible ownership.

You know, that's not gun control whatsoever.

That's just being a responsible gun owner, and making sure it's put up in a safe place.

<Alan> ...as a parent, I told my boys, there's no Fourth Amendment in our house.

This is a benevolent dictatorship, and you're going live under the rules that we have here.

You know, the old saying about the golden rule that he has the gold makes the rules.

And so when you live in our house, that was the way it was.

And so I think, you know, parents taking responsibility like that, and as the sheriff says, You got to be engaged, look in the bookbag, see what's going on in the room.

Check those phones.

Our every working day all of us have to deal with what's going on with young people and their phones.

<Sheriff Lott> I tell my daughter all the time, I'm not your best friend, I'm your dad.

You know.

There's a difference.

You got to set rules, that's part of loving your child is setting rules, and making sure that they follow them and hold them accountable.

That's how you show them that you love them.

<Thelisha> We have one more question.

>> All right, we'll move on.

What are the statistics on metal detector use in South Carolina, I'm not a fan of them, as they seem to be more reactive than proactive, don't address the underlying causes of school violence and contribute to schools feeling like a prison.

<Patrick> If I could sort I think one of the reasons we started the Safe Schools Project is in the wake of the Parkland shooting, there were suggestions about arming teachers, if you remember that... one of the hardest things I think is when emotions are high, we need to de-escalate and take a step back for some perspective.

And so we really formed one of the first missions was just to advocate against that idea.

We think it's a terrible idea to arm teachers and hire armed personnel on campus and things like that, but I think as far as metal detectors, we always have to balance the cost benefit analysis, how much militarization for a school is going to increase the level of anxiety versus increase the feeling of safety.

But on another level, too, I think it's important we have to consider as big as our state is, and it's so diverse in what our schools want and need.

we need to consult and talk to the community that attends that school and find the best solution for that school.

And I think that relates to counselors.

I think it relates to metal detectors.

I think it relates to SROs.

You got to have representation of the community, on the campus in the policy, or it's not going to have buy in <Sheriff Lott> Metal detectors to be in the schools a nightmare.

Just imagine how it is to get through an airport, now, the long lines.

You're going to make all these kids stand in that line.

The parents are going to be screaming and hollering, and then who's going to check them if it goes off?

Who's going to check.

I mean, that is a nightmare for kids to go through there, and I think there's other ways we can do it, I'm going to go back with what I said to begin with.

If we empower our kids, and build relationships with them.

That's your best tool to keep a school safe.

<Alan> So we use metal detectors in our middle schools and high schools in Georgetown County.

We do it on a random basis for it.

And the reason that we got the metal detectors is that our superintendent has three groups that he meets with regularly, One of them is what's called a student cabinet, and that's where he gets input and has discussions with them on what they think the needs are in the schools, and so they're the ones that brought up that they wanted metal detectors.

Now, frankly, I've been advocating for them for a while, and the wheel wasn't there to do it, but when the students asked for it, we put them in.

We developed it, where like I said.

It was a random thing.

It's not every day, every kid going through it, but it has the limited deterrent value.

We get a lot of vapes when we run them.

We don't necessarily see a lot of weapons, so, but we also have had parents come to school board meetings and want them used more frequently.

So there are two sides to that issue out there.

We tried to run a middle course with it in our district, but I know that a lot of places use them, but here's the thing that concerns me about it.

Is it in most places that do use them, including our district, who's going to have to work them?

Teachers and building staff, and so they've got to be properly trained to do it, because and I testified at a hearing a couple of years ago up here.

There was a bill to put metal detectors in all schools, is it takes about four people to operate one metal detector because somebody has to search those bags, search the jackets wand people that set off the metal detector?

That's also a possibility where you can introduce human error if the person who has to carry out those duties hasn't been properly trained.

So, it's not foolproof.

It's not a failsafe, you know, weapons get into airports and prisons?

Is there some deterring value?

It depends on what your community standards are, Some want it.

Some don't.

>> Is there an example of success that you can share a symbiotic relationship between all these resources that we're talking about?

Is there an example that you know of that one area or one school, they've got it right, or they have a piece of it right, and it could serve as inspiration for all of our schools and all of our teachers?

<Sheriff Lott> I can give you one from last week.

We had a 9th grader bring a pistol, a loaded pistol, stolen pistol to school.

That student get didn't get hardly 10 steps into the school.

Somebody had already told us, a school resource officer, he had a gun, and we were able to get that gun off that child very quickly.

The relationship that SRO had with other students worked.

The students were the ones who said, Hey, so and so's out of school and there was no retaliation.

Nobody knows what students told on him, and nobody will ever find that out.

But they did not want that gun in that school.

So they told very quickly.

That's...just last week.

<Alan> One of the programs in our district started and we did it in a couple of high schools, and it's going to go to the rest of them is it, a couple of days a week, the schedule gets modified and adds in a block of time, and so for instance, Andrews High School, which is the Yellow jackets.

They call it hive time.

And so, and it's during the school day.

It's not an after school, So, you can have students, extra curricular activities, clubs, and such during this time, for the ones that can't stay after school because they don't have transportation, or they have to work and they can't participate.

So it gives them the opportunity.

But then all these services that we're talking about with counselors and such, those are also available during that time.

So it gives them some time away from the school day that is not, you know, calling attention to they're having to leave class to go see a counselor or something.

It's just all those counselors and all those services are there and available, and they can quietly go take advantage of it.

>> Yeah!

Sorry, no.

I think about schools who hold, have restorative justice models, because now we get to talk about prevention, and intervention and creation all together.

But schools who hold restorative, like they look to create a culture in the school, where they move and Los Angeles did it so well, where they moved, kids who came in and who had all the behavior and violence, but because of restorative justice, and because they have they had grassroots folks, they had community in the school during the school day, their ears are already to the ground.

So, they already know what's about to come into the school because they live in that community.

They work in that community with the community, right?

And so they were able to like go into schools, and they're working alongside teachers, administrators.

But there's a restorative justice instead of like punishment and discipline.

It's like, here's the harm.

How do we repair the harm, even if it's an adult, oftentimes, when we talk about violence in school, we always talk about student, to student or student to an adult.

We don't talk about the adult to the child, right?

We say the child was harmed, but even there's restoration that has to happen there.

How do we reconcile what's been happened, so we don't have...them with the need to even want to come into school with a gun, or they want to hold the school because that's how much - because one of our main goals is we know education is the key to liberation.

We want all our kids educated, we want to how do we make sure they stay that we interrupt the school to prison pipeline?

How do we make sure we do that?

And we saw, LA Chicago, so many, there's so many models, especially when we use the restorative justice model.

<Patrick> Yeah, I think I have a confession to make that all my ideas come directly from my students and there are four student leaders that helped sort of inspire me to get more involved, and Sydney Clinton and Jacob Campbell started March for Our Lives in Charleston, And then in recent time, I've been working with Maya Green and Taylor Kahn-Perry who actually attended a restorative justice practice meeting with a bunch of adults.

These students are holding space with adults.

And I think if we stopped to listen to their ideas as equals, then that's really going to be the most productive conversations we can have.

>> Throughout tonight's conversation.

My mind kept going back to our libraries and the shift, the evolution our libraries are making.

They're not only - they're no longer places where you just go and check out a book, but there are so many resources.

I love to brag on Richland County's library, They do an absolutely wonderful job.

There are so many different programs and initiative motives that you can encounter when you step foot into their physical building.

and on their web site.

It sounds like our schools, the need for our schools to kind of make that evolution as well.

...Our children are in these schools for about 5,6,7,8 consecutive hours of the day.

We see the need for our schools in aftercare.

We see the needs of the teachers.

Very briefly, if you could evolve our schools, turn it into that wonderful place of wrap-around services, what would it be?

If you can make it happen today?

What would it be?

Our closing remarks for tonight.

<Sheriff Lott> The safe zone where kids know that they're safe, and that they trust the adults that are there and the adults listen.

Now, we're talking about school safety.

We're all adults, there's not a child on this, on this panel tonight.

Sometimes as adults, we want to tell kids what to do instead of listening to him.

So I think to me, the perfect world would be have our kids part of the part of the solution and listen to them more and keep them involved in something positive.

We know what why our child gets involved in a gang is because they're looking for something, looking for attention.

They're looking for love.

If we provide that, then they won't go into a gang.

So let's provide that love and attention in a very positive way.

<Alan> And I would go along with that and go...I think you hit on a key point when you talked about the Richland library is it takes a community involvement.

Schools can do more and probably will be doing more.

But community organizations like we've talked about today, this morning, when we were talking about SRO programs, the thing that came out is, when you look in our communities, what are the two most important places people tend to look for?

Church and school.

...so, also getting our churches involved is another important component, as well.

<Vivian> I think this is going to be the time we agree to most.

(laughs) Is that...I've always said, You know when I said before, I hope it's a young person answering this question, because I can't answer that for you, because I'm not about to go back into school.

As a student, I'm not going to be a student.

But I think, taking it a step further is whatever it looks like making sure that kids are the architect of it, and a part of that architecture, versus Oh, give us your ideas, and we're going to throw it out, but actually have decision making power in schools when it comes to discipline policy, when it comes to curriculum.

And that so I will say, hopefully, a young person can answer that question.

Since we don't have one on a panel.

<Thelisha> Patrick, I'm sorry.

20 seconds.

<Patrick> Sure.

I just think inclusion and representation is key to creating a safe space for our students.

If they can find people who are like minded and look like them, they'll feel safe in that space, and I think that's crucially important, and that's going to take financial investment.

Yeah.

<Thelisha> Thank you all so much for your time tonight, your expertise.

We appreciate it.

Thank you to all of you who joined us on social media.

Thank you for listening ...to this very important discussion on school safety for all of us here at South Carolina Public Radio and ETV.

I'm Thelisha Eaddy.

Goodnight.

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