>> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON'S JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, FORMER ASTRONAUT MARK KELLY MAKES IT OFFICIAL, HE'S RUNNING FOR THE U.S.

SENATE.

AND THE STATE'S DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN COULD BE IN HOT WATER.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE, NEXT, ON THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

ARIZONA HORIZON IS MADE POSSIBLE WITH THE SUPPORT OF APS, WORKING 24-SEVEN TO KEEP ARIZONA ON AND BY THE CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF EIGHT, MEMBERS OF YOUR ARIZONA PBS STATION.

>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON'S JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, I'M TED SIMONS.

JOINING US TONIGHT.

CARMEN FORMAN OF THE ARIZONA CAPITOL TIMES.

JEREMY DUDA OF THE ARIZONA MIRROR.

AND STEVE GOLDSTEIN OF KJZZ RADIO.

MARK KELLY IS A RETIRED ASTRONAUT, HE'S MARRIED TO FORMER CONGRESS-WOMAN GABBY GIFFORDS, AND HE'S NOW A CANDIDATE FOR U.S.

SENATE.

>> WAS THIS IN ANY BAY A SURPRISE?

>> I THINK THERE WAS A BIG QUESTION FOR MONTHS, WOULD HE RUN, WOULD HE NOT RUN.

I WOULD SAY THE FACT THAT HE IS RUNNING IS NOT A HUGE SURPRISE.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS REPORTED BY DEMOCRATS, WAS HE HEAVILY RECRUITED BY DEMOCRATS?

>> YES, VERY HEAVILY RECRUITED.

HE'S KIND OF A DEMOCRAT'S DREAM CANDIDATE.

HE'S GOT A SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY BACKGROUND, HE'S BEEN A GUN CONTROL ADVOCATE FOR YEARS.

HE'S WELL-KNOWN BECAUSE OF HIS WIFE.

WHAT MORE COULD PEOPLE WANT?

>> DO WE KNOW WHAT HE - - OBVIOUSLY THE RESUME, IT'S THERE.

IT'S STELLAR.

BUT YOU'RE RUNNING FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVEN'T BEEN BEFORE.

>> SURE, POLITICALLY HE'S KIND OF A BLANK SLATE.

CARMEN MENTIONED THE GUN CONTROL BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS WIFE HE'S BEEN OUT IN FRONT ON.

USED TO BE A REPUBLICAN, HE'S UP UNTIL THE LAST YEAR HE WASN'T THAT POLITICALLY ACTIVE.

HE DIDN'T REALLY LIKE THE POLITICAL STUFF, TRIED TO STAY AWAY FROM T HE KIND OF GOT THRUST INTO THAT SPOTLIGHT BECAUSE OF A TRAGEDY EN TUSCAN WITH HIS WIFE.

THE LAST YEARS HE'S REALLY EMBRACED THAT, BUT HE HASN'T REALLY DEVELOPED THAT POLITICAL PROFILE.

HE TALKED ABOUT A FEW ISSUES, HIS VIDEO, HEALTHCARE, JOBS, CLIMATE CHANGE, OBVIOUSLY A BEG ISSUE WITH DEMOCRATS.

BUT I THINK A LOT REMAINS TO BE DEFINED.

IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S TRYING TRYING TO CHART THAT KIRSTEN CINEMA PLAYBOOK WE SAW LAST YEAR.

>> HIS STORY IS FAR BETTER THAN MARTHA MCSALLY AND ARE WE GOING TO HEAR THAT STORY?

I THINK THE WAY HE JUMPED OUT WAS THE BEST WAY TO DO IT, THIS 4-MINUTE VIDEO.

IT'S TO REMEMBER THAT HE'S.

AN ASTRONAUT, GIVING UP BEING AN ASTRONAUT TO TAKE CARE OF HIS WIFE.

ON THE ISSUES I THINK HE'S GOING TO BE ON THE SIDE DEMOCRATS WANT HIM TO BE.

WHETHER HE'S GOING TO PLAY THE INDEPENDENT CARD, I THINK HE'LL TRY THAT.

BUT IF PEOPLE EMBRACE HIM, THIS IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE THE GUY YOU WANT TO HAVE A BEER WITH.

>> WHEN THE PRESIDENT DECLARED A NATIONAL EMERGENCY ON THE BORDER IN ORDER TOGET FUNDING FOR THE WALL, MARK KELLY SAID DATA AND FACTS MUST BE THE CENTER OF THIS DECISION.

IS WASHINGTON AT ITS WORST?

YOU COULD BE STRONGER WITH YOUR POSITION THERE, YOU COULD BE MORE MILLE MOUTHED, BUT AT LEAST HE'S GOT A POSITION.

KYRSTEN SYNEMA.

>> HER ANSWER WAS A NON-RANCE ANSWER AND NOW WE HAVE THIS CANDIDATE COMING OUT STRAIGHT OUT OF THE GATE, RESPONDING ON THIS ISSUE.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO START TO APPEAL TO PEOPLE.

>> WILL IT APPEAL ENOUGH TO DEMOCRATS TO KEEP A PRIMARY CHALLENGE AWAY?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL.

EARN WE REALLY HAVE ONE CANDIDATE LOOKING AT CHALLENGING RUBEN GALLEGO WHO WOULD COME AT THIS RACE FROM A VERY DIFFERENT ANGLE.

GALLEGO WOULD BE COMING FROM THE LEFT HE HAS A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM THE PROGRESSIVE BASE AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND FOR A VERY DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT.

AND THIS COULD BE A POTENTIAL PROBLEM FOR KELLY.

HE'S GOT A PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT IN HIS PRIMARY TRYING TO PULL HIM TO THE LEFT FORCING HIM TO TAKE ISSUE.

IN A WAY THAT WE DIDN'T SEE WITH SINEMA LAST YEAR.

SHE HAD KIND OF A SHE HAD A PRIMARY, BUT NOT A VERY VIGOROUS ONE, KIND OF A TOKEN OPPONENT.

SHE BASICALLY IGNORED THAT OPPONENT THE ENTIRE WAY.

>> WILL DEMOCRATS TRY TO KEEP CONGRESSMEN GALLEGO FROM GETTING INTO THE RACE?

>> I WOULD SUSPECT.

I GET THE IMPRESSION THEY WOULD LIEGE THERE TO BE A NICE PATH FOR WHOEVER IS THERE.

RUBEN GALLEGO IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO LISTEN TO THAT.

HE COULD HAVE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES DOWN THE ROAD.

I THINK IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT VICTORY, AND DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN ACTIVISTS DON'T NECESSARILY THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> WITH THAT IN MIND, THEN WHO BECOME AS STRONGER CHALLENGE TO MARTHA MCSALLY?

>> HERE'S THE THING, RUBEN GALLEGO SEEMS LIKE THE LIKELY CANDIDATE TO WIN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY BUT MARK KELLY SEEMS WITH HIS CENTRIST SORT OF VISION HE SEEMS MORE EQUIPPED TOOTING ON MCSALLY.

>> DOES THE PRIMARY, THOUGH, IT COULD BE PRETTY PRICEY.

IT COULD BE REALLY ROCK EM SOCK EM, IS THAT GOING TO HELP MCSALLY?

>> IT COULD TOUGHEN UP A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE AND BOOST THE PROFILE OF GALLEGO AND MARK KELLY AND THEN WHEN THEY HEAD INTO A GENERAL IT COULD HELP, BUT IT KOBO ANOTHER SITUATION LIKE MARTHA MCSALLY VERSUS KELLY WARD IN WHICH MCSALLY CAGE OUT OF THE PRIMARY, SHE WAS WOUNDED, SHE BECAUSE DOWN A HOT OF MONEY, AND DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO DEFEND HERSELF.

>> LET'S SAY THIS FOR THE 2018 ELECTION I'D GIVE MARK DELI MORE OF ACHINESS TO GALLEGO.

WE KNOW IN ARIZONA ESPECIALLY IN A PRESIDENTIAL LENS DEMOCRATS TEND TO BE MORE - - IF DEMOCRATS CAN KEEP THAT PASSION, THAT IS WHERE GALLEGO MIGHT BE ABLE TO EKE THIS OUT.

>> SURE, I MEAN THE PARTY, DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BE ENERGIZED WE SAW THIS LAST YEAR JUST WITH THE BYRD-TERM IT'S GOING TO BE EVEN MORE SO 2020 WHOEVER WINS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT IS GOING TO BE MAKING A PLAY FOR ARIZONA, FOR A SENATE RACE THE STATE MIGHT BOW WINNABLE FOR A CANDIDATE MORE LIBERAL THAN MIGHT NORMALLY BE ABLE TO WIN.

>> GETS A LOT 06 ATTENTION NATIONALLY.

>> ONE THING LAST WEEK WHEN ANYONE GRANT WOODS AND MARK KELLY HAD A CONVERSATION.

THE TIMING GRANT WAS PULLING OUT ON FRIDAY LEAVING THIS MANGER KELLY ANNOUNCEMENT AND GRANT DID NOT WANT TO BEAT UP ON AN ASTRONAUT.

THEY SORT OF FOUGHT FOR THE MODERATE THERE, AND I THINK MARK KELLY BON.

>> BEATING UP ON AN ASTRONAUT OR A MARINE YOU CAN'T WIN ON EITHER SIDE.

THE DROUGHT CONTINGENCY I THOUGHT WE WERE DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

EVERYONE AGREED AND HANDSHAKES ALL AROUND AND BIG SMILES AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THE ENTIRE PLAN IS IN JEOPARDY FROM ARIZONA'S VIEWPOINT.

>> IT'S NEVER THAT EASY AS IT SEEMS.

BASICALLY THE HELA RIVER INDIAN COMMUNITY HAS THREATENED TO PULL OUT OF THE DCP DEAL BECAUSE OF A BILL INTRODUCED BY SPEAKER RUSTY BAUERS OF THE HOUSE.

AND BASICALLY THEY SAY THAT HIS BELL INFRINGES ON THEIR WATER RIGHT SO COULD POTENTIALLY.

>> HOW SO?

I MEAN, PRIOR APPROPRIATION SOMETHING U HO LONG THOSE LINES?

>> THINK SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.

YOU'D HAVE TO GET INTO THE DETAILS, WHICH YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO DO ON THIS SHOW.

>> I THINK THE IDEA IS IT'S A USE IT OR LOSS IT SITUATION AND NOW SPEAKER BAUERS SAYS LET'S CHANGE THAT AND TRIBE IS SAYING NO.

>> WITH THE WATER IT'S A 5-YEAR USE IT OR LOSE IT PROVISION, AND IT YOU LOSE IT IT GOES TO THE HELA INDIAN COMMUNITY.

THE TRIBE THEY ARE VERY THAT THEY DO NOT WANT THIS TO GO AWAY.

THEY'RE SAYING YOU WANT ALL THIS WATER FOR THIS DROUGHT CONTINGENCY, THIS CAN'T HAPPENS WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MUCH WATER THAT'S GOING INTOTHIS.

YOU'RE TAKING AWAY SOME OF OUR WATER HERE WE CAN'T PUT IT THERE AND THIS ALL DOES AWAY.

SPEAKER BAUER SAYS THIS IS UNRELATED LEGISLATION AND IT'S A SHAME THEY'RE USING THIS AS LEVERAGE, USING THE DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN AS LEVERAGE, BUT THE TRIBE IS THE ONE HOLDING THE CARD HERE BECAUSE THEY DECIDE WHO MOVES FORWARD.

>> THE WATER THE TRIBE WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE PLAN WOULD GO TO PANEL COUNTY FARMERS WHO WOULD OTHER WISE BE STUCK THERE GOING WITH GROUND WATER.

IS THE SPEAKER BAUER'S LEGISLATION SEPARATE AND APART FROM THIS PLAN?

>> I DON'T THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN THE WEEDS ON THIS ARE GOING TO THINK IT IS.

WE TALK ABOUT PER SECTION BEING REALITY, AND JUST TO SAY I THINK IT'S VERY INTERESTING TO WATCH GOVERNOR DOOCY WHO HAS NOT EXACTLY FORTHCOMING TO SEE WHERE HE IS ON THIS.

I THINK IF HE HAS ANY ABILITY TO TWIST SOME ARMS BEHIND THE SCENES YOU DO NOT WANT TO PLAY GAMES WITH THE TRIBES AT THIS POINT.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO PLAY GAMES WITH ARIZONA'S WATER FUTURE.

EVEN IF STRICTLY IT'S NOT AN INCORRECT MOVE, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.

>> WAS THIS THE GOVERNOR'S MISSION ACCOMPLISHED MOMENT?

NOW WE'RE BACK AT IT AGAIN NONE YEAH, HE SPOKE TOO SOON AND HE NEEDS TO DO SOME SERIOUS CORRECTING BEHIND THE SCENES IF HE WANTS THIS DCP DEAL TO GET DONE BECAUSE NOW THEY HAVE UNTIL MARCH 4 TO COMPLETE THE DEADLINE.

IF THE GRICK FALLING OUT, ARIZONA FALLS OUT AND THE WHOLE FOR THE SEVEN STATES IS JUST DONE.

>> IS SPEAKER BAUER IN PLAY ON THIS OR ARE THERE OTHER THINGS HE MIGHT WANT?

I THINK HE'S LOOKING AT FARMERS i IN THE VALLEY.

IS THAT HIS FOCUS AND THAT'S IT?

>> IT COULD BE A PART OF ME WONDER IF THIS IS LEVERAGE ON TAX CONFORMITY.

BUT THE GOVERNOR HAS THE CARD TO PLAY HERE, TOO.

IF HE WANTS THIS ALL TO GO AWAY, EVEN IF THAT BILL PASSES AND GETS ON HIS DESK HE'S THE ONE WITH THE VETO PEN.

IF THERE'S ANYONE THAT CAN REASSURE BAUERS IT'S DOOCY CALLING LOUIS AND SAYING IF THIS GETS TO MY DESK YOU HAVE MY WORD IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAS SAID NOTHING ABOUTS THIS SO FAR TODAY, BUT BEHIND THE SCENES THERE WOULD BE A LOT HAPPENING.

>> THAT WOULD GO OVER HOW WITH SPEAKER BAUERS?

>> I WOULD EXPECT SPEAKER BAUERS WOULD SAY GET OUT OF MY SAND BOX, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE KNOW HOW BIG A DEAL THIS IS.

EVEN THOUGH WE THOUGHT THE DATE HAD PASSED AND WE THOUGHT WAIT A MINUTE AND BRENDA SAID CALIFORNIA'S NOT DONE.

THAT'S ALL BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF A CONFUSING MESS, BUT THERE'S FOE QUESTION, EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNOR MAY HAVE AN EXTRA THREE YEARS AND TEN MONTHS TO GO IN HIS TERM, THIS IS THE ISSUE HE'S BEEN RIDING ON AND HE NEEDS TA MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

>> VOTERS THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD DECIDED ON SCHOOL VOUCHER EXPANSION, THE ESA PROGRAMMING TECHNICALLY NOT A VOUCHER, BUT IT'S A VOUCHER IN OTHER WISE ONLY.

WE GOT TWO BILLS IN THE LEGISLATURE NOW, DEALING WITH VOUCHER EXPANSION.

WHY?

>> IT'S TYPICAL REPUBLICANS TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT VOTERS, AND WE SEE THIS OFTEN.

I MEAN, THEY'RE TRYING TO GO AROUND THE WILL OF THE VOTERS WHO SAID WE DON'T WANT VOUCHER EXPANSION, AND EVEN NOW IN THE COMMITTEE HEARING EARLIER THIS WEEK THEY KIND OF TRIED TO PLAY IT AS THIS ISN'T VOUCHER EXPANSION, THIS IS - - IT'S SORT OF ADDING MORE TO THE SLOUCHER VOUCHER SYSTEM.

>> HOW IS ADDING MORE NOT EXPANDLING?

>> THE SAME BAY AN ESA ISN'T A VOUCHER, I GUESS.

THERE'S A LOT OF PROVISIONS IN THIS BILL.

MOST OF THEM ARE FAIRLY MINOR, HOW YOU CAN USE THIS MONEY USING FLASH CARDS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, EXPANDING THE AMOUNT MOUNT OF TIME OF WHEN YOU CAN USE IT.

BUT IT ALTS ELIMINATE A LE CHOIRMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE PULLED OUT OF A FAILING SCHOOL TO QUALIFY FOR ESA.

IN THIS CASE YOU JUST HAVE TO LIVE IN THE DISTRICT AND DON'T HAVE TO PULL OUT OF THE SCHOOL.

TO OPPONENTS, ESPECIALLY THE ONES WHO WORKED SO HARD TO DEFEAT THIS MASSIVE EXPANSION PACKAGE LAST YEAR, THAT VERY MUCH SEEMS LIKE AN EXPANSION PROGRAM.

>> INTRODUCED BY SENATOR DAVID LIVINGSTON, THAT'S A FAMILIAR LAST NAME.

>> DAVID LIVINGSTON DEFINITELY IS INVOLVED IN THE SCHOOL SITUATION AND MAY IN FACT BENEFIT FROM THIS KIND OF THINK.

IT MAKES A HOT OF PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS A SITUATION WHERE VOTERS SPOKE LOUDLY AND I'M WONDERING IF SOMEONE LIKE DAVID LIVINGSTON IS THINKING THERE IS NO MORE GAS IN THE TANK IN SAVE OUR SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY'VE USED UP ALL THE MOMENTUM.

I DON'T SEE THIS.

MESNARD IS INVOLVED IN THIS AS WELL.

INTERESTING TO SEE THE POWER BASE HERE BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE SHIFTING AND MAYBE REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS DON'T SEE IT.

>> WHAT LIVINGSTON HAD IS A SEPARATE RELATED BILL.

THIS TAKES THE ESA PROGRAM WHICH IS OVER SEEN BY THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION STRIPPED BASICALLY ALL OF THEIR OVERSIGHT AND ADMINISTRATION RESPONSIBILITIES AND GIVES IT TO THE STATE TREASURER.

THIS SEEMS CURIOUS UNTIL YOU REALIZE THE DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION IS NOW RUN BY A DEMOCRAT AND ONE OF THE REPUBLICAN WHOSE HAD BEEN RUNNING IN THE PRIMARY FOR THAT ALSO NAMED LIVINGSTON, WHO'S SENATOR DAVID LIVINGSTON'S WIFE.

ONE MIGHT WONDER IF - - HE SAYS THIS BILL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ELECTION RESULTS BUT HE DID TELL ME A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO HE THINK IT WOULD BE AN EASIER PROGRAM TO MANAGE BY SOMEONE WHO SUPPORTS THE PROGRAM WHICH YOU WOULD GET OUT OF THE TREASURER, THAN SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T.

>> GOING BACK TO WHAT CARMEN SAID ABOUT REPUBLICANS GOING AROUND ON THIS, IN A LOT OF CASES - - THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, WHICH I GUESS WE'RE NOT GOING TO DISCUSS TONIGHT, THE SAME SORT OF THING OF REPUBLICAN MAJORITY NOW SEEING DEMOCRATS IN A POWER POSITION, AND TAKE AWAY THE POLITICAL POKER.

>> RIGHT, ALTHOUGH FOR REGARDING LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR J. D. MESNARD HAS BEEN PUSHING THAT FOR AWHILE.

>> AND THE BILL HE HAS PROPOSED HE SAID IT WOULD GO INTO EFFECT AFTER HAS BEENS' TENURE.

>> THAT AS WELL.

I UNDERSTAND THE POINT.

I UNDERSTAND AS WELL THAT THE SENATE, I THINK THIS WEEK VOTED 24-TO 6 TO REPEAL THE VEHICLE LICENSE TAX.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR THIS.

WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THIS EVEN THOUGH DEMOCRATS PRETTY MUCH ALL VOTING FOR IT LAST YEAR IT'S BECOME VERY UNPOPULAR TO DEMOCRATS IT SEEMS VERY REGRESSIVE, TO REPUBLICANS IT SEEMS LIKE A TAX.

THAT'S ENOUGH COMMON GROUND FOR THEM TO WANT TO REPEAL THIS.

ONCE THAT GETS TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK, THE GOVERNOR'S VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF THIS.

BUT IFER 24 PEOPLE - - YOU NEED TWO-THIRDS TO OVERRIDE THE VETO.

THAT HASN'T HAPPENED SINCE 1982 SO THAT WOULD BE A VERY BOLD AND ANTAGONISTIC MOVE.

>> CARMEN AGAIN, THE IDEA IS THAT THIS IS SOMETHING LAWMAKERS PASSED LAST YEAR, THEY THOUGHT THIS WAS A GREAT IDEA.

>> BUT THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD BE HALF AS MUCH AS IT ACTUALLY IS.

>> ADOT'S DIRECTOR WAS GOING TO SET THAT FEE.

>> AND THEY'RE ALTS BACK PEDDLING ON THAT BECAUSE NOW THEY DON'T WANT IT TO BE SO THAT AGENCY DIRECTORS CAN SET UNLIMITED FEES.

THEY WANT SORT OF A STANDARD TABLE OF HOW MUCH DIRECTORS CAN SET THESE FEES FOR.

SO WE DON'T GO INTO A PROCESS SAYING A FEE IS GOING TO BE 18-DOLLARS AND ENDS UP BEING 32-DOLLARS.

>> THAT BILL HAST YEAR SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS POORLY PLANNED AND POORLY EXECUTED.

>> ARE YOU STUNNED?

YOU SEEM STUNNED.

>> A LITTLE BIT, YEAH.

>> ANYTHING THAT CAN BRING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER IN THE LEGISLATURE MEANS PROBABLY NOT GOOD STUFF FOR THE GOVERNOR IN THIS SENTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE SOME DEMOCRATS WHO ARE CONCERNED THAT SOME OF THEIR LOW INCOME CONSTITUENTS ARE GOING TO GET HIT BY THIS, AND REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING YOU TOLD US THIS WAS GOING TO BE 18-DOLLARS.

>> POSSIBLE YOU COULD KEEP THE 18-DOLLARS AND RAISE THE GAS TAX?

KEEN THE 18-DOLLARS FOR ONE YEAR, AND THEN INCREASE IT IN LATER YEARS?

THERE ARE WAYS AROUND THIS, ARE THE THERE NOT?

>> CERTAINLY ARE, BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY SET THE AMOUNT YOU TRIGGER PROPOSITION 108 WHICH IS A REQUIREMENT IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION THAT YOU NEED A TWO-THIRDS VOTE FOR ANY TAX INCREASE.

THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THINGS THE AGENCY'S DIRECTOR WILL SET THE FEE, THAT'S ALLOWED USING THE CIVIL MAJORITY.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY PASS A BILL THAT SAYS IT WILL BE 18-DOLLARS ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU NEED TWO-THIRDS AND CAN YOU GET THAT.

>> THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS TANGSES ANYMORE.

THERE ARE FEES.

>> SO I HEAR.

>> THERE'S A MOVE TO EXTEND THE TAX FILING DEADLINE, THIS GOES NOW BACK TO TAX CONFORMITY AND THE IDEA BEING THAT IF YOU EXTEND IT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THIS, BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> IT'S MORE FUN WITH THE GOVERNOR TAKING ON THE LEGISLATURE AND NOT TO STEAL SOMETHING JEREMY SAID IN THE GREEN ROOM BUT IT'S KIND OF FUN TO SEE THE GOVERNOR RILING UP WITH THE LEGISLATURE IN THIS KIND OF THING.

IT'S AN INTERESTING SITUATION TO SEE WHAT CAN HAPPEN NEXT IN THIS CASE.

LIKE A LOT OF THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT, A LOT OF THINGS DON'T MAKE SENSE AND I'M WONDERING IF IT'S JUST FEBRUARY AND WE'RE EARLY ON IN THE SESSION.

>> YOU'RE SURPRISED BY THAT?

[LAUGHTER] >> THIS IS THE TAX CONFORMITY THING WHERE STATE HAS TO CONFORM TO FEDERAL TAXES, IF NOT A WINDFALL OR EXTRA TAXES.

GOVERNOR SAYS HEY, BRING IT ON.

REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS SAY NO.

THEY'VE ALREADY TRIED TO CHANGE IT ONCE.

THIS IS A BUTTING OF HEADS HERE.

>> I DON'T SEE THEM - - I DON'T FORESEE THEM TRYING TO STOP GETTING THE GOVERNOR TO CHANGE HIS MIND AND THAT'S WHY IT'S IN THE BILL TO EXTEND THE DEADLINE TO MID-JUNE-ISH BECAUSE THEY DON'T SEE THIS FIGHT ENDING ANY TIME SOON.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S BEST BET MIGHT BE TO WORK WITH DEMOCRATS TO GET HIS CONFORMITY BILL.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING SCENARIO.

>> IT IS, BUT THE GOVERNOR RUNS INTO A PRAWN.

HERE.

HIS SU POSITION IS SUPPORTED BY APPROXIMATELY 0 PEOPLE ON THIS SIDE OF THE LEGISLATURE.

THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO TAKE THE TAX CONFORMITY, ELIMINATE THE EXEMPTION, AND THE DEDUCTIONS ELIMINATED IN THE FEDERAL TAX BILL A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

REPUBLICANS WANT TO TAKE THAT BACK TO THE TAX PAYERS IN THE FORM OF A TAX CUT.

DEMOCRATS WANT TO TAKE THAT MONEY AND SPEND IT ON K-TWELVE EDUCATION.

THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO PUT IT IN THE RAINY DAY FUND, THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT TO ANYONE'S BASE.

IF YOU'RE IN A DEAL WITH THE DEMOCRATS YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING AND THAT SOMETHING IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE MORE K-12 FUNDING.

>> CARMEN'S POINT IS REALLY DONE HERE, APRIL 15 TO JUNE 15.

>> UH-HUH.

>> WE CAN EXPECT TO BE HERE AWHILE.

>> WELL, WILL THE SESSION STILL GEE ON GOING?

HOW WARM IS IT GOING TO BE AT THIS POINT?

THIS IS JUST A MISH MASH OF THINKS.

TO TAKE US IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT DIRECTION, HOW MUCH HAVE WE SEEN THIS GOVERNOR'S PHILOSOPHIES CHANGE?

WHEN WE CONSIDER WHEN HE STARTED WE'RE GOING TO CUT TAXES EVERY YEAR.

I KNOW EASE TAXES, HOWEVER WE WANT TO CARVE THAT UP.

155 MILLION-DOLLARS APPROXIMATELY IS GOING TO GO INTO THE RAINY DAY FUND.

THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GOVERNOR, ONE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT A COUPLE OF MONTHS THE TOHIS FIRST TERM.

>> REELECTIONS CHANGE A LOT OF MINDS.

>> NOT ONLY THAT, BUT YOU KNOW YOU CAN TELL FROM THE STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS BIPARTISANSHIP HE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN LENGTH MAYBE HE SAW THIS COMING.

>> HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS SETTING HIMSELF UP FOR.

BUT GOING OFF WHAT JEREMY SAID HE'S GOT TO GIVE ON SOME POINT HERE.

>> YEAH, IS SURE, NO ONE'S GOING TO GIVE HIM JUST MONEY FOR THE - REPUBLICANS CERTAINLY AREN'T AND THE INCOME TAX HIKE WHICH TO THEM IS I THINK IS THE WORST KIND OF TAX.

SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE THE CONFORMITY WITHOUT BRINGING THE TAX MONEY BACK AND THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T GOING TO DO IT FOR FREE.

YOU HAVE TO NEGOTIATE, THE ART OF THE DEAL.

>> WHILE GOVERNOR DOOCY JUST WON REELECTION AND A LOT OF THE LAWMAKERS DID TOO, THE GOVERNOR SAID FOR FOUR YEARS THESE LAWMAKERS CAN'T RUN FOR TWO YEARS WHEN BE INCREASE YOUR TAXES AND DIDN'T GIVE THAT MONEY BACK TO YOU.

>> PROVIDED THAT THE CONSTITUENTS UNDERSTAND THE TAX CONFORMITY ISSUE AND I'M NOT EVEN SURE THE LAWMAKERS.

>> BUT THEY LOVE THE RAINY DAY FUND.

YOU HAVE TO ASK THE AVERAGE TAXPAYER - - .

>> ALL RIGHT, UH, SPEAKING OF MONEY, AND THE AVERAGE TAXPAYERS AND THE AVERAGE JOE, THE MEN M'MM WAGE, THE AVERAGE YOUNG JOE IN THIS CASE - - .

>> RIGHT.

>> THE MINIMUM WAGE WAS VOTED ON, IT'S ALL SET IN STONE, EVERYTHING'S FINE EXCEPT NOW LAWMAKERS WANT TO CREATE ANEW CLASSIFICATION.

>> WHICH AMAZINGLY ENOUGH IS GOING TO KNOCK THAT RANGE TO 7.25 AND ONLY GOING TO AFFECT SOME PEOPLE, AND THE PEOPLE IT'S GOING TO AFFECT I THINK THEY'RE STILL VOTERS, I'M NOT SURE.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.

EXCEPT I HATE TO GIVE IT TOO MUCH CREDIT IF WE DON'T LIKE IT, THE CAME BEFORE COMMERCE DOESN'T LIKE IT, ITS LET'S GET IT BACK IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>> BUT AGAIN THEY'RE SAYING - - THIS IS AGAIN YOU CUT FROM 11-DOLLARS AN HOUR TO 7-POINT TWENTY FIVE AS STEVE MENTIONED BUT ONLY FOR PART-TIMERS UNDER THE AGE OF 22.

>> AND AS STIEVE MENTIONED STILL VOTERS, SOME VOTERS IN THERE.

>> PROMOTERS SAY IT MEANS MORE JOBS, IT HELPS SMALL BUSINESS BUT IT GOES AGAINST THE RULE OF THE VOTERS.

>> YEAH, I MEAN THE VOTERS EXPANDED OR VOTED TO INCREASE THE MINIMUM WAGE A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND THIS, BY ALL ACCOUNTS, POINTS TO REDUCING THE MINIMUM WAGE, WHICH IS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY VOTED FOR.

>> VOTER PRO TENSION ACT AT PLAY HERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE ISSUE BEHIND THE BILL ARGUES THIS DOESN'T VIOLATE THE VOTER PRO TENSION ACT AND PROPOSITION SIX THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT DECREASING MINIMUM WAGE, WE'RE CREATING A NEW CLASS OF PEOPLE.

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTELY ABSURD ARGUMENT THAT WILL PROBABLY LAST ABOUT FIVE SECONDS IN COURT IF IT ACTUALLY GETS THAT FAR.

UNDER THIS ARGUMENT, DONOR YOU CAN TAKE ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE AND SAY WE'RE CREATING A NEW CLASS OF WORKERS.

HOTEL WORKERS, SENIOR CITIZENS ANYONE.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THIS WILL PASS, BUT IF IT DOES, I WOULD EXPECT IT TO LAST ABOUT FIVE SECONDS AND THE INEVITABLE LAWSUIT GETS FILED.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE PAID TO SOMEONE UNDER 22 WORKING PART-TIME - - THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE WAS DESIGNED FOR THOSE WITH FAMILY AND THOSE WHO WERE SOUL PROVIDERS OF FAMILIES FULL-TIME AND IT WASN'T MEANT FOR THESE FOLKS.

>> HERE'S THE THING THAT SOME OF THE LAWMAKERS FROM LOW INCOME AREAS WERE ARGUING IS THAT THE STUDENTS OR THE 18 YEAR OLDS, 18 TO 22 YEAR OLDS ARE STILL HENNING HELPING TO BRING IN MONEY FOR THE FAMILIES BECAUSE THE FAMILIES LIVE IN LOW INCOME AREAS, MAYBE THE PARENTS HAVE FAST FOOD JOBS AND THEY'RE NOT MAKING ENOUGH TO SUSTAIN THE HOUSEHOLD SO THE KIDS IN THE FAMILY ALSO GETS JOBS.

>> THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE SAYS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY JOBS IF THAT BUSINESS CAN'T AFFORD TO HIRE AT THAT RANGE?

>> HAS THAT BEEN PROVEN WRONG TO SOME EXTENT?

IT SEEMS THESE BUSINESSES HAVE NOT SUFFERED.

THE AVERAGE VOTER IF WE COME BACK TO THIS WAS NOT THINKING IN THESE TERMS AND AS JEREMY MENTIONED WE'RE NOT THINKING IN TERMS OF ARE WE GOING TO CUT.

I THINK THAT'S A KEY POINT OF YOUR QUESTION.

IS THE MINIMUM WAGE APPLYING TO THESE TYPES OF PEOPLIC VOTERS THINK IT SHOULD APPLY TO EVERYBODY.

>> ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT TOMAKE IF YOU'RE A FULL-TIME STUDENT WORKING 20 HOURS A WEEK, WHY ARE YOU WORKING 20 HOURS A WEEK?

PROBABLY TO PAY FOR SCHOOL, PAY FOR RENT, PAY FOR BOOKS.

IT'S A LOT HARDER TO DO AT SEVEN .25 AN HOUR, WHICH IS LOWER THAN THE OLD MINIMUM WAGE OF PROP 26,.

>> YEAH, SO THIS GOES HOW FAR?

[SILENCE] >> I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN, WE'VE SEEN LAWMAKERS PASS ALL SORTS OF CRAZY THINGS AND THEN GET CHALLENGED IN COURT.

I ANTICIPATE THAT.

>> WHEN THE LAWYERS TELL THEM THIS UNCONSTITUTIONAL NO ONE PAYS ATTENTION.

>> WE'VE GOT A MINUTE AND A HALF HERE LEFT, ENGLISH LANGUAGE INSTRUCTION FOR A LONG TIME NOW THESE KIDS HAVE HAD TO HAVE FOUR HOURS PER DAY, IT WAS REQUIRED, MANDATORY.

NOW WE'VE GOT A NEW SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION WHO IS VERY HAPPY TO HEAR LAWMAKERS HAVE DECIDED MAYBE TWO HOURS.

>> FLEXIBILITY MAKES SENSE.

I THINK THE IDEA WAS THE FOUR HOURS WASN'T WORKING FOR ENOUGH PEOPLE THEY WERE FALLING BEHIND.

NOW YOU'RE GIVING DISTRICTS POTENTIALLY AS CATHY HOFFMAN SAID DURING THE CAMPAIGN SHE WANTED TO DO AND THE GOVERNOR AGREED WITH HER - - LET'S LET THESE DISTRICTS FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKS FOR THEM.

IF TWO HOURS WORKS BETTER, I THINK THERE'S SOME OPTIMISM THERE.

>> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY INTRODUCED BY A REPUBLICAN AND SUPPORTED BY DEMOCRATS AND THE DEMOCRATIC SUPERINTENDENT OF GOVERNMENT INSTRUCTION.

WE'RE ENDLING ON THE SHOW ON EVERYONE HAPPY.

>> IT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S SINGLE PERSON VOTED AGAINST THIS, EVERYBODY VOTED FOR IT, JUST FOR A MOMENT FORGET ABOUT FIGHTING FOR DROUGHT CONTINGENCY, TAX CONFORMITY, MINIMUM WAGE, ESA'S AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF AND AGREE ON THIS ONE THING.

>> LET'S AGREE ON THAT.

WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT BIG FIGHT DOWN THE?

>> THE LAST BIG FIGHT, DROUGHT CONTINGENCY.

TAX CONFORMITY'S GOING TO BE THE FIGHT THAT DRAGS ON FOR THE ENTIRE SESSION.

>> CAN YOU AT LEAST SAY KUMBAYAH ONCE?

>> THAT'S NOT IN MY DNA BUT THANKS FOR COMING ON.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

MONDAY ON ARIZONA HORIZON, WE SIT DOWN WITH THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF BARRY GOLDWATER TO DISCUSS THEIR FATHER'S PASSION FOR PHOTOGRAPHY.

A GOLDWATER SPECIAL MONDAY ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

TUESDAY, FRESHMAN CONGRESSMAN GREG STANTON WILL JOIN US.

WEDNESDAY WE'LL UPDATE THAT DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN AND OTHER ISSUES AT THE STATE A CAPITOL.

THURSDAY OTHER TANYA CATAN WILL TALK ABOUT GETTING THE SPARK AND JOY BACK INTO YOUR WORK AND LIFE.

AND FRIDAY, IT'S ANOTHER EDITION OF THIS HERE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOIN US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.